tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-82930687756976256592024-03-12T21:15:38.693-04:00John Cage TrustOfficial blog of the <a href="http://www.johncage.org">John Cage Trust</a>.<br>
Laura Kuhn, Executive Director<br>
<em><a href="http://www.johncage.org">Return to the main Cage site.</a></em>John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-55702753607485627012022-02-09T14:17:00.000-05:002022-02-09T14:17:33.752-05:00John Cage's JokeThis is not what you think. Rather, it's literally John Cage's joke, only one of the two he ever told me. It arose spontaneously from my memory in an email exchange today with <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/alexross/2010/09/john-cage.html">Alex Ross</a>, who, in case you missed it, has just published a beautiful essay on John Cage in the Oct. 4 issue of <i>The New Yorker</i>.<div>
</div><div>The joke goes like this:</div><div>
</div><div>A congregation of the great religious leaders of the world convened in Boston for an annual conference on the subject of world peace. As the opening reception drew to a close, each of the men moved to take his assigned seat at the long wooden table that had been set up for the occasion. The esteemed Rabbi, chosen to serve as conference leader, began to sit, but then abruptly rose and looked worriedly around the room.</div><div>
</div><div>"Is there a Christian Scientist in the house?" he asked hoarsely, noisily clearing his phlegmy throat.</div><div>
</div><div>The Christian Scientist rose quickly from his seat at the opposite end of the table, his chest swelling with pride. "I am a Christian Scientist," he solemnly declared.</div><div>
</div><div>"Oh, thank goodness!" the Rabbi said, visibly relieved, gathering up his things. "Can we change seats? There seems to be a draft here."</div><div>
</div><div>Laura Kuhn</div><div>
</div>John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-21869458282874398052022-02-09T14:16:00.000-05:002022-02-09T14:16:21.907-05:00The Halberstadt/Bayreuth DiariesPrologue<div>
</div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">We're about to go back to Halberstadt at last! We've wanted to return ever since our first visit last year, when Laura Kuhn of the John Cage Trust was responsible for the note-change on the organ. Just prior to that July 2010 visit, we joined Laura and her partner Ralph Benko for a sleepover at the <a href="http://www.sababurg.de/guidedtour/guidedtour.php?startseite=0">Dornroschenschloss Sababurg</a> -- the inspiration for Sleeping Beauty's Castle -- which was everything you could want from a fairy tale location. We might have thought <i>this</i> would be the fun part of the trip, since, looking back, I think we all approached Halberstadt with a bit of trepidation. What kind of strange event would we be attending? Was this to be some kind of wild-eyed geeky wonderment or some ponderous, painfully earnest musicologist's private fantasy??</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">What we quickly found was as far from both as one could get: the most wonderfully warm, generous, and delightful people, who completely knocked us out with their commitment and hospitality, in a thoroughly charming small town with wonderful places and sights, and a musical project which, in spite of moving at the slowest pace any musical performance has yet achieved, was at once vibrant, historic, and curiously emotional.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">There was a note-change earlier this year, but we couldn't go. The Edition Peters companies have been for the last 70 years or so just a loose association of sometimes cooperative firms broken up by both the Holocaust and the establishment of the DDR. Last August, after 17 arduous years of directed effort, they merged into one harmonious business. We had thought our lives might be a little quieter after that, but we couldn't have been more wrong. The last note-change fell on Nicholas's birthday, as it happens, but even that didn't give us the freedom to attend.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">Thursday, August 4</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">After a morning's work, we headed off to Heathrow Airport for the short hop to Berlin, where we'll stay overnight. We're booked into a Suite Novotel, an extraordinary chain of hotels across Germany in which every room in every hotel is identical. All the "services" (bath/shower rooms, closets, loos, and so on) are in a self-contained "pod" built into one part of the room. After you've been to a few of these hotels, you really have to check your itinerary when you wake up each morning to establish which city you're in because the identical nature of every room throughout the chain is extremely disorienting. On the other hand, the rooms are a good size, perfectly comfortable (in a kind of German business hotel way), and incredibly well thought through, so that everything you might has already been provided. It's like living the "optimized" life! We have dinner at a marvelous restaurant in what used to be the East German part of the city, which was recommended to us by the Berlin lawyer who got us through the Edition Peters reunification legalities. The decor is just as it must have been 25 years ago before the Wall came down, but the food is magnificent. Astonishingly, an excellent meal, with wine, cost only 50 euros (or about $70).</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">Friday, August 5</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">Woke up in Berlin -- a slight fight through the breakfast room, getting two tiny little tasty sausages with scrambled eggs, which neatly kills off the good effect of the muesli and fresh fruit -- and how we're on the train to Magdeburg. The landscape around Berlin is beautiful, and a constant reminder of the past. Outside our hotel was the magnificent facade of all that is left of the old Anhalterbahnhof, like a stage set, really, a la Billy Wilder's <i>Symphonie einer Grossstad</i>t, and now on the train we've passed Potsdam and surrounding lakes. We've also moved from sunshine to rain.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">Just a moment ago, while working away at the laptop, we heard a faint sound, which we couldn't quite identify. Was it the computer's fan going wrong? We finally realized that it was the sound from the Halberstadt website, which we had recently opened and which was now quietly playing the music that is sounding in the Buchardi Kloster through the laptop speakers! John Cage, reaching out to us already.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">Before we reach each station, one hears a happy little tun over the train speakers encouraging us to put on our walking boots and climb a big mountain and breathe in the healthy air. It's torture after the fifth time. At first we think it doesn't work at all with <i>ORGAN2/ASLSP</i> streaming from the laptop, but then we remember Cage's <i>Musicircus</i> and think may this is just fine after all.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">Arriving at Halberstadt station we're greeted by Martje Hansen, who kindly ushers us to the breathtaking house in which she and her husband Rainer Neugebauer live on the Domplatz. It used to be the town library, and in a sense it still is. The official library may have been moved to specially converted space not far away, but there are probably nearly as many books in the collection still in place, stretching across the many bays that run along the front of the house, overflowing into side rooms and spaces. It is the most extraordinary living space, and simultaneously a magical and fascinating collection of literature, arts, and <i>objets</i>.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">Rainer, who is one of the main organizers of the John Cage Organ Project, and who acts as Master of Ceremonies on the note-change days, has more or less lost his voice. Fortunately, a pharmacist has been called who has gone straight for a maximum chemical assault on the virus -- seemingly with good effect, because something of Rainer's voice has returned. He has a great deal of public speaking to do during the rest of the day, so we hope the recovery is sustained!</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">After lunch, another of the heroes of the Halbertstadt Cage Project joins us, Dr. Harriet Watts, originally from Texas, a member of a particularly select group of human beings: Americans Who Live in Europe. It doesn't make a great mnemonic, but its members have a remarkable combination of qualities: all the energetic "can-do" and "pizazz" that can make Americans so exciting and unnerving to Europeans, coupled with thorough immersion in European culture and style, which seem sometimes to baffle other Americans. In Harriet, it's a particularly powerful mix. Unlike the average English-speaker, she has thoroughly mastered German, and we speak the local language together far more than her native English. She is involved in all manner of important cultural projects around the area as well as with the Cage Organ Project, and evidently accepts no boundaries to what can be done! She lives in nearby Quadlinburg, possibly the prettiest and most delightful town in Germany, so she will also be staying with Martje and Rainer in Halberstadt tonight.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">
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</font></div>John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-59770355677379774342018-05-16T14:04:00.002-04:002018-05-16T14:04:36.764-04:00The Passing of Pia Gilbert (1921-2018)<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1BxwH5STGQ4/WvxxhS33kzI/AAAAAAAABIc/wTQSjBZwGiAY2zTUJib-dbmD23sN1miUQCLcBGAs/s1600/Just%2BPia.tif" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="468" data-original-width="400" height="320" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1BxwH5STGQ4/WvxxhS33kzI/AAAAAAAABIc/wTQSjBZwGiAY2zTUJib-dbmD23sN1miUQCLcBGAs/s320/Just%2BPia.tif" width="273" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Pia Gilbert, ever youthful at 95 (© Ralph Benko)</td></tr>
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The John Cage Trust mourns the passing of dear Pia Gilbert (1921-2018), who died at home in her Upper West Side apartment in New York on Monday, May 14. Pia was a close friend to many, including John Cage and Merce Cunningham, and she was among my very first teachers during my graduate school years at U.C.L.A. Her life was rich and amazing -- you can access her Oral History conducted at U.C.L.A. in 1986-1987 <a href="http://digital2.library.ucla.edu/viewFile.do?contentFileId=2384832" target="_blank">here</a>. You can also access a beautiful blog posted last year by the author Dawn Denham (formerly Haines) <a href="https://dawnhaines.wordpress.com/2017/06/25/jan-degaetani-and-composer-pia-gilbert/" target="_blank">here</a>, which centers around Pia's close friendship with the late American mezzo-soprano, Jan DeGaetani. While Pia is very much associated in my mind with Los Angeles (where she was close to the entire Schoenberg family), she retired from U.C.L.A. in 1985 and relocated to New York, where she took up a teaching position at the Juilliard School. She is survived by her daughter, Vivian, her brother, Hans and his wife, Barbara, and their three children, Rebecca, Jonathan, and Sarah. I am personally quite saddened by her death. And New York doesn't feel quite the same without her.<br />
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Laura KuhnJohn Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-55951042867442877612018-03-19T12:40:00.002-04:002018-03-19T12:40:56.671-04:00A Eulogy for Gary Lincoff (1942-2018)<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8oTu81WBfcg/Wq7VoZcUN2I/AAAAAAAABHw/7aki2qog4aIPxFoga7yuyo4NEBAeMf-QgCLcBGAs/s1600/gary_lincoff.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="270" data-original-width="175" height="400" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8oTu81WBfcg/Wq7VoZcUN2I/AAAAAAAABHw/7aki2qog4aIPxFoga7yuyo4NEBAeMf-QgCLcBGAs/s400/gary_lincoff.jpg" width="259" /></a></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;">The mycological world and beyond mourns the unexpected death on Friday, March 16, 2018, of one of its brightest lights, <a href="http://garylincoff.com/" target="_blank">Gary Lincoff</a>. Lincoff was well known in the field of mycology, the author of no less than seven mushroom identification guidebooks,</span></span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"> including the essential </span><i style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/National-Audubon-Society-American-Mushrooms/dp/0394519922/ref=la_B001IU2NOC_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521400969&sr=1-1" target="_blank">Audubon Field Guide to Mushrooms</a> (1981) </i><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">and </span><i style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Mushroom-Hunter-Illustrated-Harvesting/dp/0785833153/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521402783&sr=1-6&keywords=gary+lincoff" target="_blank">The Complete Mushroom Hunter</a> </i><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">(2015; rev. edition 2017). </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"> He was an early member of the <a href="http://www.johncage.org/blog/NYMS_Newsletter.pdf" target="_blank">New York Mycological Society</a>, reconstituted (from two much earlier iterations) by John Cage, Guy G. Nearing, Lois Long, Esther Dam, and Ralph Ferrara in 1962. (Click <a href="http://www.johncage.org/blog/CagetoNYMS.pdf" target="_blank">here </a>for a lengthy letter Cage wrote to disgruntled Society members two years into its new existence). Lincoff became one of Cage's long-time friends and valued colleagues. Lincoff later also became active with the Connecticut-Westchester Mycological Association (COMA) and the North American Mycological Association (NAMA), serving the latter as president from 1983 to 1988; he also taught classes on mushroom identification and related topics at the New York Botanical Gardens.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Lincoff was expert <i>and</i> charming, with an infectious enthusiasm about all things fungi that charged many a budding amateur mycologist. You might recognize him from the 2008 Canadian feature film, </span><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn3ecuPHkBY" style="font-size: 14px;" target="_blank">Know Your Mushrooms</a><span style="font-size: 14px;">, directed and produced by Ron Mann (Sphinx Productions), in which he and Montana's own mycologist-restauranteur <a href="https://www.telluridemushroomfest.org/larry-evans.html" target="_blank">Larry Evans</a> were featured as "myco-visionaries."</span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br /></span></span></span>
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I never met Lincoff, without question my loss. But, I've known many people who were moved and inspired by him in addition to John Cage, including the author David Rose, whose work has been featured on "Kuhn's Blog" several times. I've heard David speak about Lincoff many times, and it's never been without reverence and an affectionate smile. Rose delivered a eulogy at Lincoff's funeral yesterday at the Plaza Jewish Community Chapel on Amsterdam Avenue in Manhattan. This eulogy appears below, with his kind permission. </span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br /></span></span></span>
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Lincoff is survived by his wife of many years, Irene Liberman, their son Noah Lincoff, and his brother, Bennett Lincoff.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;"><br /></span></span></span>
<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;">Laura Kuhn</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px;">_____________</span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times new roman,bold"; font-size: large;"><b><i>Eulogy for Gary Lincoff
</i></b></span></div>
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman,bold";"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";">On behalf of the Connecticut-Westchester Mycological Association
(COMA) I offer my sincere condolences to Irene and Noah, </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">to Gary’s
</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">family, and to the countless friends of Gary Lincoff in the mycological
community and beyond. Gary touched us all in a profound and indelible
way. He taught us the science of fungi, and he helped us to know the beauty
of the natural world in marvelous, intimate detail.
</span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";">The physicist Richard Feynman once recommended to his students</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">, “St</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">udy
hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent, and
</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">original manner possible.” I think we know that Gary Lincoff did just that.
</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">He forged his own path in mycology, botany, and nature study. In doing so
he helped to create a living, lively community.
</span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Gary’s involvement </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">with COMA began in 1975, the same year COMA was
founded. He gave countless lectures; he came to every foray; and his last
lecture was just </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">last Saturday at COMA’s Mushroom University, which </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">one
might say </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">was really “Gary Lincoff University” – </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">a winter tutorial on
mushroom genera and species that </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">we’ve sponsored for </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">several years.
</span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
</i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><i>Gary gave an annual lecture for COMA every spring. I always enjoyed
introducing him, for it gave us a chance to cut up and have fun right before
his talk. I once introduced him by reciting the title of every talk he ever did
for COMA. This exercise literally took well over five minutes </i></span><i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">and he was
slightly exasperated and amused by this, but I wanted everyone to know that
here is a scholar whose dedication is absolutely unstoppable, going back
almost half a century! And that was just for COMA! He did this for the New
York Mycological Society, for the Telluride Mushroom Festival, and for
how many others?
</span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman,italic";">The Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Mushrooms </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">was our
bible. I have three copies. The first is utterly ruined from a thunderstorm on
a foray in the woods, but I will treasure it always for G</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">ary’s inscription: “To
</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Sue and Dave and Lila and Katie </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Roses are much more interesting than
mushrooms. I want photos of all of you! You deserve medals for showing
such good humor at the driest foray in a quarter century! That we found so
many mushrooms anyway is magic </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">which is what mushrooms are all
about!!! </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– Gary, COMA foray, 30 September 1995.” </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">And at that foray I will
</span></i></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><i>never forget the special attention he gave to my daughters, teaching them
how to identify Gomphus, and Leccinum, and other fascinating mushrooms.
</i></span><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Gary was the Socrates of Mycology </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– </span></i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><i>that is not a mi</i>s<i>placed exaggeration.
He really did employ the Socratic Method, just as he incorporated history,
biography, epistemology, and literary perspectives into his educational
process. He was a true educator. </i></span><i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">“</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Education</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">” means “drawing one out.” He
</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">drew us out and taught us time and again </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">in the words of Henry David
Thoreau </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">– </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">that </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">“nature works from reverence</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">,</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">” </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">and </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">that “</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">The man of most
science is the man most alive, and whose life is the greatest event.</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">”
</span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Not so long ago Gary took to posting quotations from Thoreau on his
Facebook page. In his book, </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman,italic";">A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">,
Thoreau said this: </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">“</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">What, after all, does the practicalness of life amount to?
The things immediate to be done are very trivial. I could postpone them all
to hear this locust sing. The most glorious fact in my experience is not
anything that I have done or may hope to do, but a transient thought, or
vision, or dream, which I have had. I would give all the wealth of the world,
and all the deeds of all the he</span><span style="font-family: "times new roman";">roes, for one true vision.”
</span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";">Gary Lincoff provided us with that one true vision. When so much of our
world is garishly fraudulent, Gary Lincoff was </span><span style="font-family: "times new roman,italic";">authentic</span></i><span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><i>. His magnanimous
friendship was authentic. He was loved by countless thousands of people,
and he changed the world for us. We will miss him.
</i></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times new roman";"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times new roman,bold"; font-size: 10.000000pt;">18 March 2018 / David Rose / Connecticut-Westchester Mycological Association (COMA) </span></div>
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John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-8450969068642871832017-12-25T07:26:00.001-05:002017-12-25T12:27:53.210-05:00Seasons Greetings from the John Cage Trust<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--r2ps0O6jgg/Wj6FRxyDP9I/AAAAAAAABGM/kzFYICRyc74krOowM8B4PbXanvk0d-ofwCLcBGAs/s1600/cow03.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="304" data-original-width="281" height="320" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--r2ps0O6jgg/Wj6FRxyDP9I/AAAAAAAABGM/kzFYICRyc74krOowM8B4PbXanvk0d-ofwCLcBGAs/s320/cow03.jpg" width="294" /></a></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: x-large;">Home begins outside.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">- John Cag</span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">e</span></div>
John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-23080665316340022412017-11-06T14:03:00.000-05:002017-11-06T14:03:18.535-05:00All Over But the Shouting ("Music for Merce," Walker Art Center, 2017)<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D2YS3C4GY6Q/WeT_Jy4mt1I/AAAAAAAABEo/uP6av65WSi8Dw0MELis2cV7uNUXMlAdxACEwYBhgL/s1600/pa2017po_mfm.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="773" data-original-width="1600" height="308" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D2YS3C4GY6Q/WeT_Jy4mt1I/AAAAAAAABEo/uP6av65WSi8Dw0MELis2cV7uNUXMlAdxACEwYBhgL/s640/pa2017po_mfm.jpg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Quinta, Ikue Mori, Peter Selway, Christian Wolff, David Behrman, John King,<br />
Joan La Barbara, Zeena Parkins, Fast Forward, George Lewis</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The marvelous interdisciplinary exhibition <i>Merce Cunningham: Common Time</i> (Walker Art Center, Minneapolis, 2/8 - 7/30, 2017/Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago, 2/11 - 4/30, 2017) has come to an end. This landmark show, the visionary work of Fionn Meade and Philip Bither (with Joan Rothfuss and Mary Coyne), focused on Cunningham's dynamic artistic collaborations with a great many people, including John Cage,Trisha Brown, Jasper Johns, Robert Morris, David Tudor, Nam June Paik, Robert Rauschenberg, Frank Stella, and countless others.<br />
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One of the high points was "Music for Merce: A Two-Night Celebration," a pair of concerts curated by longtime Cunningham musician, John King. These were heard first at the Walker (McGuire Theater, 2/23 and 2/24), then repeated at Chicago's MCA (2/25 and 2/26), each evening consisting of a separate set of solo, duo, and ensemble works, each concluding with a collectively made realtime composition, billed simply as "Event." Compositions were by the performers themselves, interspersed with works by David Tudor (<i>Untitled</i>, 1975/1994), John Cage (<i>Fontana Mix</i> with <i>Aria</i> with <i>Indeterminacy</i>, 1958), and Earle Brown (<i>December 1952</i> and <i>November 1952</i>, both 1952). <br />
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It would have been enough to see this incredible roster of performers on the same stage together at the same time. Each has a tremendous following, and each causes hearts to beat a little faster and pulses to race. But the truth is that the music that was made that night was beyond good, and will stay in my memory for a very long time. Perhaps especially David Behrman's <i>Long Throw</i> (2017- ), which was sublime.<br />
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<a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-z6bXr3ATTZI/Wf8NkhCGunI/AAAAAAAABFE/4ry9U66Jz68jE5DKF0JEUy4TZB-zhrDtACLcBGAs/s1600/pa2017mfm0224_011.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1067" data-original-width="1600" height="425" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-z6bXr3ATTZI/Wf8NkhCGunI/AAAAAAAABFE/4ry9U66Jz68jE5DKF0JEUy4TZB-zhrDtACLcBGAs/s640/pa2017mfm0224_011.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
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Here's a little video clip of one of the ensemble performances, courtesy of the Walker Art Center, just to give you an idea of what you (may have) missed:<br />
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<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" mozallowfullscreen="" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/241522078" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="640"></iframe><br />
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Laura Kuhn<br />
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John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-45557641991534767962017-10-16T08:20:00.003-04:002017-10-16T08:20:33.607-04:00John Cage on Gluttony, Saints, Table Manners, Fasting, and Wild Edibles<br />
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<a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LBjtARi89B8/WeSTt5ghKeI/AAAAAAAABEA/CiPXqx5Qw0g1BAZWUX4s5pIooPHL1YBIwCLcBGAs/s1600/symplocarpusfoetidus3368.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="768" data-original-width="1024" height="300" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LBjtARi89B8/WeSTt5ghKeI/AAAAAAAABEA/CiPXqx5Qw0g1BAZWUX4s5pIooPHL1YBIwCLcBGAs/s400/symplocarpusfoetidus3368.jpg" width="400" /></a></div>
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<span style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-size: large;">JOHN CAGE, address to the </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 150%;">GENTLEMEN OF THE WESLEYAN GLEE CLUB </span><span style="font-size: 14pt;">(1960):</span></div>
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Though I am honored to have been
asked to speak to you, I am speechless with amazement. That a group of
seemingly still-growing young men should have resolved to eat dinner only once
a year fills me with awe. I like to think that matters spiritual and physical
are so closely united that they cannot be split apart. But your example gives
me pause.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Since we at the <a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/libr/schome/sconline/cage.html" target="_blank">Center for Advanced Studies</a> not only eat dinner 365 times a year, but indulge also in breakfast and
lunch each day, we are so to say 1094 times as dependent on food as you are. This
great difference in food consumption makes me suspect that you pick up a little
food here and there in the course of a year, when no one is looking, -- or should
I say when you yourselves are not singing? I have therefor telephoned Extension
235, spoken to Mrs. Jessie M. Dougherty and found out that this is indeed your
only meal this year, that you have no Annual Luncheon, no Annual Breakfast,
just this one Annual Dinner. That you dignify it by calling it a Banquet is
understandable. And that you have eaten in quantity, unstintingly, is also
understandable.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I have unlimited admiration for
your Director, <a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/waschcenter/newsletters/2012-spring.pdf" target="_blank">Richard K. Winslow</a>. I asked him the other evening whether it was
indeed true that food held little attraction for him. He paused and then said:
it was, that is, food doesn’t.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Whether your discipline of not
eating comes from him to you (indicating his extraordinary powers of direction)
or whether your continence has reach from you to him (indicating the infectious
quality of your devotion) is a question that defies my powers of thought.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Nevertheless, in keeping with the
Wesleyan ideal of the Teacher-Scholar, and not wishing to teach you my bad
gluttonish habits, I place before you what I can find in a spirit of
scholarship off the top of my head in the way of historical instance that bears
a small relationship to your wondrous accomplishment (though these instances
may not be said to be commensurate).<o:p></o:p></div>
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I have heard tell of the Incas of
Peru who chewed coca leaves in order to avoid eating and yet continue their
life of toil carrying stones from hither to yon. It is not known whether or not
they sang while working, and whether, if they did sing, they did so in a spirit
of glee. I am certain though that, unlike the Incas, you are not addicted to
dope or manual labor.<o:p></o:p></div>
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And were there not <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylite" target="_blank">saints who sat on poles</a> for months without eating? What were their names?<o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="http://www.bengalcuisine.in/ram-krishna" target="_blank">Sri Ramakrishna</a>, an adjudicated 19<sup>th</sup>
century incarnation of God, did indeed stand on one foot for several months in
a state of Samadhi, that is to say, spiritual ecstasy. However, one of his
disciples from day to day inserted food in his mouth. The mere mention of his
name in the present context is out of place. However, he had a great interest
in singing and when he was asked by one of his devotees who was a musician
whether or not he, the devotee, should give up music and devote himself to the
spiritual life, Sri Ramakrishna replied: By no means. Remain a musician. Music
is a means of rapid transportation to life everlasting.<o:p></o:p></div>
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This subject of transportation
reminds me of another saint, a Tibetan one, <a href="https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/great-yogi-milarepa" target="_blank">Mila Repa</a>, who did not do what you
do (that is, eat only one meal a year), but who, remarkably, ate only thistles.
This had the effect of his transporting himself through the air in the form of
a thistle. He was also able to appear in several different places at the same
time. Perhaps your not eating will or has already given you the power of
appearing nowhere. (I owe this supposition to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_O._Brown" target="_blank">N.O. Brown</a> who had the kindness
to listen to the first draft of this speech.)<o:p></o:p></div>
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Before leaving the subject of Mila
Repa, let me say that <a href="http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/60songs.pdf" target="_blank">he wrote songs</a>, but I forget whether or not he sang them
himself. He died as a matter of fact from eating. On three occasions he was
offered poisoned food by one of the wives of another saint who was so jealous
of Mila Repa’s spiritual position in Tibet that he desired his death. He
promised this wife that if she succeeded in getting Mila Repa to eat the
poisoned food, that he would make her No.1 among his concubines. Mind you, Mila
Repa, through having eaten for years nothing but thistles, was clairvoyant. He
knew perfectly well that the food was poisoned. But he also knew clairvoyantly
that the lady really wanted him to eat it. Therefor, taking pity on her, the
third time she offered it to him, he took it, ate it, but he himself appointed
the hour of his death.<o:p></o:p></div>
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My colleague in the Center, Marsden
Bates, tells me that there are two volumes of documentation on a forced fasting
that took place during the Second World War in a camp of Conscientious
Objectors. It appears that the dreams of these men lost all suggestions of the
erotic life and became completely devoted to such things as meat and potatoes. I
cannot refrain from wondering what the nature of your dreams are, you of the
Wesleyan Glee Club. Perhaps after singing all day, you pass a peaceful night
undisturbed by dreams, secure in your knowledge of the inevitability of this
annual supper for which you have spent an entire year singing.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Fully aware that as a Scholar I cut
a poor figure, I have asked <a href="http://archives.reed.edu/decade/1940.php" target="_blank">Reginald Arragon</a> who spoke last fall at the
Convocation in Honor of Scholarship to give me some story that would be
appropriate for you to hear after your single dinner of this academic year. He
communicated the following delicious text: </div>
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“Picture to yourselves four
scholars and scientists, an anthropologist of Russian ancestry, the host, a
sociologist, the guest of honor, a psychologist, and a historian, all faculty
colleagues, sitting down to a rich Russian midnight repast in honor of the
approaching departure of the sociologist from the faculty and community, a
separation to be begun by his withdrawal to a theosophical retreat on Orkas
Island. For he was a Dutchman who was not only infected by theosophy but
seriously so. Unhappily he was even then fasting to give him the spiritual
state necessary for profiting from the retreat. The fast permitted him only
water, even in the face of this spread of meats, cheeses and cakes, anchovies
and caviar, though he confided to us that his wife, who was not present, could
have taken orange juice. Such laxity had to be granted to the woman, who is the
weaker vessel.</blockquote>
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<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p>“The psychologist, a gross, hearty,
elephant of a man, not to be outdone in physical endurance or spiritual
self-denial by a sociologist, then recalled that he had fasted once, though he
had no intention of fasting now. Indeed, he remembered even that the fast was
last summer, that it was to cut down his weight, that it went on for weeks,
that he did not need even water, but got stronger every day. He was in a forest
of the state of Washington and like Paul Bunyan he cut down trees daily. The
sociologist’s interest and admiration increased minute by minute as the
psychologist added detail after detail to the account of this triumphant fast. ‘But
then,’ asked the theosophist, ‘why did you stop?’ Because it was near the 4<sup>th</sup> of
July and the end of the strawberry season, and he succumbed to temptation with
the thought that in two days the luscious, red, fresh fruit would be gone
irretrievably for a year. So it was in the days before frozen foods, and so the
great experiment was abandoned. </blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: center;">
<o:p> </o:p>“Not however was that of the socio-theosophist
as he sat in front of the Russian meal and watched the anthropologist, the
psychologist, and the historian eat into the night.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He made only one minor concession, of no
apparent importance, but one that should be a warning to all fasters to make no
concessions (unless it be strawberries), to stay by water, and not venture even
to watercress, and certainly not to do so in response to the host’s appeal to
friendship and love. Would the guest of honor go without touching any of the
repast prepared by the host’s wife especially for the guest? Would he not
respond at least with a gesture of gratitude and affection? Would he not toy
with a plate of watercress arranged by the hand of the absent hostess (for it
was a stag party)? Surely there was no nourishment here, nothing to break the
fast! Affection broke the spell, and the taste of a leaf led to that of another
and to another, until in the midst of midnight conversation the whole plate
(meant originally for all of us) was consumed by one guest of honor, who had
eaten nothing for a week and was not really breaking his fast. But let it be a
warning!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If you know the virtues of
watercress, you need not be told what they do to an empty stomach; and, if you
do not know, I advise you not to try it. At any rate, the morning found the
sociological theosophist so ill and weak that he had to postpone two days his
departure for the retreat. Even then he must barely have re-established his
spiritual control of his rebellious physical man.”</blockquote>
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<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p>Mr. Arragon’s reference to orange
juice reminds me of my mother who once went on an orange juice diet in order to
effect a cure of a tumorous condition. When I informed her over the telephone
that I had been appointed a Fellow in the Center for Advanced Studies, she said:
Why are they always connecting you with the Dance? And then she added, What
University did you say you’re going to be in? I said: Wesleyan; and she said,
being a good Methodist, Do they know you’re a Zen Buddhist?</div>
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<o:p></o:p></div>
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Well, in Zen, they say: In summer,
perspire. Shiver in winter. I might say in the same spirit: When hungry, eat. However,
since being here at Wesleyan I have apparently eaten and drunk excessively. I
am now suffering from a gouty arthritic condition.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Consider me, please, irrelevant to
your abstinent ways. It is abundantly evident that in an academic situation I
am a bad influence. However, following the admonition, Give the Devil his due,
I ask you to listen to two of my stories concerning food (they are part of my
lecture, <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><a href="http://www.johncage.org/indeterminacy.html" target="_blank">Indeterminacy: new aspect ofform in instrumental and electronic music</a></i>): one is about the death of the
Buddha and the other is about the time I myself nearly died.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/13/nyregion/dorothy-norman-92-dies-photographer-and-advocate.html" target="_blank">Dorothy Norman</a> invited me to dinner
in New York. There was a lady there from Philadelphia who was an authority on
Buddhist art. When she found out I was interested in mushrooms, she said, “Have
you an explanation of the symbolism involved in the death of the Buddha by his
eating a mushroom?” I explained that I’d never been interested in symbolism;
that I preferred just taking things as themselves, not as standing for other
things. But then a few days later while rambling in the woods I got to
thinking.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I recalled the Indian concept
of the relation of life and the seasons. Spring is Creation. Summer is
Preservation. Fall is Destruction. Winter is Quiescence. Mushrooms grow most
vigorously in the fall, the period of destruction, and the function of many of
them is to bring about the final decay of rotting material. In fact, as I read
somewhere, the world would be an impassible heap of old rubbish were it not for
mushrooms and their capacity to get rid of it. So I wrote to the lady in
Philadelphia. I said, “The function of mushrooms is to rid the world of old
rubbish. The Buddha died a natural death.”<o:p></o:p></div>
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I will conclude this talk with my
second story, for I do not wish to impose too much food for thought on us who
have just now filled ourselves, perhaps excessively, though understandably,
with actual food.<o:p></o:p></div>
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When I first <a href="https://eastofborneo.org/articles/subcontinental-synth-david-tudor-and-the-first-moog-in-india/" target="_blank">moved to the country</a>,
David Tudor, M.C. Richards, the <a href="http://www.blackmountaincollege.org/a-dialogue-with-david-weinrib-black-mountain-college-potter/" target="_blank">Weinribs</a>, and I all lived in the same small
farmhouse. In order to get some privacy I started taking walks in the woods. It
was August. I began collecting the mushrooms, which were growing more or less
everywhere. Then I bought some books and tried to find out which mushroom was
which. Realizing I needed to get to know someone who knew something about
mushrooms, I called the 4H Club in New City. I spoke to a secretary. She said
they’d call me back. They never did.<o:p></o:p></div>
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The following spring, after reading
about the edibility of skunk cabbage in <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=nIkMAQAAMAAJ&source=gbs_book_other_versions" target="_blank">Medsger’s book</a> on wild plants, I
gathered a mess of what I took to be <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symplocarpus_foetidus" target="_blank">skunk cabbage</a>, gave some to my mother and
father (who were visiting) to take home, cooked the rest in three waters with a
pinch of soda as Medsger advises, and served it to six people, one of whom, I
remember, was from the Museum of Modern Art. I ate more than the others did in
an attempt to convey my enthusiasm over edible wild plants. After coffee, poker
was proposed. I began winning heavily. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._C._Richards" target="_blank">M.C. Richards</a> left the table. After a
while she came back and whispered in my ear, “Do you feel all right?” I said,
“No. I don’t. <a href="https://forageporage.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/you-are-not-going-to-eat-skunk-cabbage-are-you/" target="_blank">My throat is burning and I can hardly breathe</a>.” I told the others
to divide my winnings, that I was folding. I went outside and retched. Vomiting
with diarrhea continued for about two hours. Before I lost my will, I told M.C.
Richards to call Mother and Dad and tell them not to eat the skunk cabbage. I asked
her how the others were. She said, “They’re not as bad off as you are.” Later,
when friends lifted me off the ground to put a blanket under me, I just said,
“Leave me alone.” Someone called Dr. Zukor. He prescribed milk and salt. I
couldn’t take it. He said, “Get him here immediately.” They did. He pumped my
stomach and gave adrenalin to keep my heart beating. Among other things, he
said, “Fifteen minutes more and he would have been dead.”<o:p></o:p></div>
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I was removed to the Spring Valley
hospital. There during the night I was kept supplied with adrenalin and I was
thoroughly cleaned out. In the morning I felt like a million dollars. I rang
the bell for the nurse to tell her I was ready to go. No one came. I read a
notice on the wall that said that unless one left by noon he would be charged for
an extra day. When I saw one of the nurses passing by I yelled something to the
effect that she should get me out since I had no money for a second day. Shortly
the room was filled with doctors and nurses and in no time at all I was hustled
out.<o:p></o:p></div>
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I called up the 4H Club and told
them what had happened. I emphasized my determination to go on with wild
mushrooms. They said, “Call Mrs. Clark on South Mountain Drive.” She said, “I
can’t help you. Call Mr. So-and-So.” I called him. He said, “I can’t help you, but
call So-and-So who works in the A&P in Suffern. He knows someone in Ramsey
who knows the mushrooms.” Eventually, I got the name and telephone number of
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1986/03/22/obituaries/guy-nearing-is-dead-at-96-author-and-horticulturist.html" target="_blank">Guy G. Nearing</a>. When I called him, he said, “Come over any time you like. I’m
almost always here, and I’ll name your mushrooms for you.”<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;">
I wrote a letter to Medsger telling
him skunk cabbage was poisonous. He never replied. Some time later I read about
the need to <a href="http://identifythatplant.com/a-skunk-cabbage-looks-similar/" target="_blank">distinguish between skunk cabbage and the poisonous hellebore</a>. They
grow at the same time in the same places. Hellebore has pleated leaves. Skunk
cabbage does not.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;">
FINALLY, let me say that I have the
same high opinion of your singing that I have of your eating. Therefor I wish
all of you (or all of us, for I should like to be included) long, happy lives,
during the course of which you may recover from any ill effects of this
evening’s banquet and my after-dinner remarks.<o:p></o:p></div>
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LAURA KUHN <o:p></o:p></div>
John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-65850743160052389182017-09-14T14:02:00.001-04:002018-06-25T13:19:41.101-04:00John Cage's Percussion Collection (July 8, 1940)<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;">
<img border="0" data-original-height="398" data-original-width="500" height="317" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AcYbTkO4MTg/WbqobUA1dZI/AAAAAAAABBA/idvXdV_8XM8IJQLHMLtnTkUFw2bROkdUgCLcBGAs/s400/Merce%2BCunningham%2Bat%2BCornish%2B1938.jpg" width="400" /></div>
<br />
<br />
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9ZPhLaZN7TE/Ufe958Ie5YI/AAAAAAAAAnE/aZlAqhTssjQ/s1600/Cage+Percussion+7.2.40+small.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9ZPhLaZN7TE/Ufe958Ie5YI/AAAAAAAAAnE/aZlAqhTssjQ/s640/Cage+Percussion+7.2.40+small.jpg" width="480" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Cage's Inventory of Percussion Instruments (July 8, 1940)</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Early on known as a percussion composer, John Cage spent time in the period September 1938-Summer 1939 building a percussion instrument collection at the Cornish School in Seattle, Washington. Cage was employed at the Cornish School </span><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">as composer and accompanist for the class Creative Composition and Percussion Instruments and to accompany the classes in modern dance taught by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Bird" target="_blank">Bonnie Bird</a>. </span><br />
<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">It was at the Cornish School that Cage first met Merce Cunningham, a young man seven years his junior who hailed from Centralia, Washington, a rural part </span><span style="font-size: 14.666666984558105px;">of the</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> state, some 80 miles south. Cunningham had entered the theater program with aspirations of becoming an actor, but quickly took to dance and thus was often in Cage's presence in Bird's modern dance classes. (Cunningham later recalled that Cage was excitedly referred to in whispers by the Cornish students as the "handsome new teacher in the red sweater"). Other faculty members in residence at Cornish were Margaret Jansen and Doris Dennison, both of whom played in Cage's ensemble, known as the Cage Percussion Players. Cunningham occasionally played with them, and Xenia, Cage’s young wife, also a transplant from Los Angeles, was a regular member. Cage referred to them all as his “literate amateur musicians.”</span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PUBgJcnDFLc/WbwX2q8dIXI/AAAAAAAABBc/oQ9MKV3ejLI0Ripq2UriyitRieXJxzxFQCLcBGAs/s1600/Merce%2BCunningham%2Bat%2BCornish%2B1938.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="398" data-original-width="500" height="317" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PUBgJcnDFLc/WbwX2q8dIXI/AAAAAAAABBc/oQ9MKV3ejLI0Ripq2UriyitRieXJxzxFQCLcBGAs/s400/Merce%2BCunningham%2Bat%2BCornish%2B1938.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Merce Cunningham, Bonnie Bird, Syvilla Fort, and Dorothy Hermann, <br />
performing "Three Inventories of Casey Jones" at the Cornish School, 1938, <br />
choreography by Bird, music by Ray Green.</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Cage's instrument collection was hard come by, and many an appeal was written to potential funders to help it grow. Cage often wrote (see <i><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Selected-Letters-John-Cage/dp/0819575917" target="_blank">The Selected Letters of John Cage</a></i>, 2016) that in addition to the instruments he'd amassed, he also had access to Henry Cowell's <a href="https://120years.net/the-rhythmiconhenry-cowell-leon-termenusa1930/" target="_blank">Rhythmicon</a>, as well as instruments invented by <a href="http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17340257" target="_blank">Léon Theremin</a>. He had acquired a thunder screen designed by <a href="http://www.usitt.org/connect/harold-burris-meyer/" target="_blank">Harold ("Dr. Snodgrass") Burris-Meyer</a> of the Stevens Institute of Technology, and he had access to instruments then being developed by his father, John Milton Cage, Sr., a well-known (and slightly eccentric) inventor, including one that would demonstrate "the variation of the overtone structure of a tone."</span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Works scored for percussion instruments alone were scarce at the time, and Cage appealed to a variety of composers to write scores for him. The list of composers Cage reached out to, as well as the composers whose works appeared on his programs, is eclectic: Virgil Thomson, Charles Ives, George Antheil, José Ardevol, Gerald Strang, Johanna Beyer, Edgar Varèse, Franziska Boas, Mildred Couper, Henry Cowell, Lou Harrison, William Russell, Ray Green, and Amadeo Roldan, among others. Some of these names are well known to us today, while others exist only on the fringe of memory.</span></span><br />
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-22U5NDBJBy8/WbqoePL8u1I/AAAAAAAABBE/MM_iW-p__TUW-lWmtA5u2O8T-_-DQ217wCEwYBhgL/s1600/John%2BCage%2Band%2Bhis%2Bpercussion%2BEnsemble.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><img border="0" data-original-height="273" data-original-width="300" height="364" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-22U5NDBJBy8/WbqoePL8u1I/AAAAAAAABBE/MM_iW-p__TUW-lWmtA5u2O8T-_-DQ217wCEwYBhgL/s400/John%2BCage%2Band%2Bhis%2Bpercussion%2BEnsemble.jpg" width="400" /></span></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Cage Percussion Players</span></td></tr>
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<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">The Cage Percussion Players became well known at the Cornish School and around Seattle, but the ensemble widened its reach by touring a bit throughout the Northwest, presenting concerts at venues that included the University of Idaho in Moscow (Jan. 8, 1940), the University of Montana in Missoula (Jan. 9, 1940), and Whitman College in Walla Walla (Jan. 11, 1940. The program in each of these venues consisted of works by Cage (</span><i style="font-family: 'helvetica neue', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Quartet</i><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">, 1935), Johanna Beyer, Ray Green, Lou Harrison, and William Russell. The Cage Percussion Players ended its tour at Reed College in Portland, Oregon (Feb. 14, 1940), where added to the program was the premiere performance of Cage's </span><i><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Second </span><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Construction</span></i><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">.*</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">*<i>Third Construction</i> (1941) endures as one of Cage's most popular works, to both players and audiences. I'm reminded of the time I had the great pleasure of performing at an enormously successful <span style="font-style: italic;">Musicircus </span>at the Embassy Theatre<span style="font-style: italic;"> </span>in Los Angeles on Sept. 12, 1987, an event produced by Larry Stein, a longtime member of the Repercussion Unit. This was part of the larger John Cage Festival taking place in Los Angeles (Sept. 5–12,
1987) celebrating the composer's 75th birthday. The many weeklong events included “An Evening of Words About, For, and By John Cage,” wherein Cage read his
little-known (and still prescient) text “<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Other-People-Think-John-Cage/dp/0988543109" target="_blank">Other People Think</a>” (1927), an essay he'd presented at the Hollywood Bowl 60 years before. I was one of eight performers in Cage's <i>Radio Music</i>, while Cage had been charged with reading "Part IV" from his <i>Empty Words</i>. We found ourselves on a simultaneous break and we sat together quietly watching the proceedings. All of a sudden virtually everyone began to move hurriedly from one side of the theater to the other, and I quickly looked at my program: <a href="http://nexuspercussion.com/2012/07/from-the-archives-11-the-percussioner-1987/" target="_blank">Nexus</a> was scheduled to perform Cage's <i>Third Construction</i> in just moments and in exactly the position people were heading. I commented that this must be one popular work! Cage simply sighed and then laughed, his eyes twinkling. "Oh, yes," he said. "It's my <i>Bolero</i>."</span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Laura Kuhn</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span></span>John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-36612176263126706262017-09-13T15:51:00.000-04:002017-09-13T15:51:43.004-04:00A Celebratory 216 Hours of John Cage Across Ace Hotels!<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YlvEydLJr20/WbbtR-cPSJI/AAAAAAAABAY/YDLPh6XHpM4_gQkO5dbWuqHZO18LtQ5kACLcBGAs/s1600/ace-global-score.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="134" data-original-width="613" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YlvEydLJr20/WbbtR-cPSJI/AAAAAAAABAY/YDLPh6XHpM4_gQkO5dbWuqHZO18LtQ5kACLcBGAs/s1600/ace-global-score.gif" /></a></div>
John Cage's 105th birthday was celebrated this year with "<a href="http://www.acehotel.com/newyork/john-cage-mode-records-untouchable?redirect_language=False" target="_blank">Untouchable Numbers</a>," a 24-hour listening event taking place in the lobbies and other public spaces of <a href="http://www.acehotel.com/" target="_blank">Ace Hotels</a> in Chicago, London, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, New York, Palm Springs, Portland, and Seattle. The playlist was a randomized sampling of works drawn from CDs from the John Cage Edition on the <a href="http://www.moderecords.com/profiles/johncage.html" target="_blank">Mode Records</a> label, created by none other than Mode's founder, <a href="http://www.johncage2012.com/speakers/brandt.html" target="_blank">Brian Brandt</a>: 75 works performed by five dozen or so individual musicians and ensembles, including John Cage himself! <br />
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<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: rgba(0 , 0 , 0 , 0.701961); font-family: inherit;"><span style="word-spacing: 3px;"><a href="http://www.bensisto.com/" target="_blank">Ben Sisto</a>, mastermind of the project, prefaced the announcement of the event from </span></span><span style="color: rgba(0 , 0 , 0 , 0.701961);"><span style="word-spacing: 3px;">his position</span></span><span style="color: rgba(0 , 0 , 0 , 0.701961); font-family: inherit;"><span style="word-spacing: 3px;"> at the New York Ace Hotel as follows:</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; color: rgba(0 , 0 , 0 , 0.701961); word-spacing: 3px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>In 1952 a composer called John Cage told us there was music in silence, and the world hasn't been the same since. Today, the gradual wearing away of stone by water, the echoes of gravitational waves, and the caloric metamorphosis of food into energy may all be understood as musical works, a privilege for which we are indebted to Cage.</i></span></span></div>
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So, beginning at 12 am on Sept. 5, 2017, lasting until the stroke of midnight, the sounds and silences of our favorite "sonic philosopher" were heard non-stop at Ace Hotels, comprising voices and strings and orchestras and pianos and organs and rain sticks and radios and bass guitars and snare drums and flutes and gramophones and bottles and zoomoozophones and percussion and recordings and oboes and bass trombones and handclaps and...<br />
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The press coverage was generous and fun:<br />
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<a href="http://bbook.com/nightlife/ace-hotels-to-honor-105th-birthday-of-legendary-composer-john-cage/" target="_blank">BlackBook</a><br />
<a href="http://www.limelightmagazine.com.au/news/hotel-chains-john-cage-birthday-marathon" target="_blank">Limelight</a><br />
<a href="http://www.ladowntowner.com/calendar/" target="_blank">LA Downtowner</a><br />
<a href="https://www.artsjournal.com/tags/08-23-17" target="_blank">Artsjournal</a><br />
<a href="http://pelicanbomb.com/events/2017/9/5/untouchable-numbers" target="_blank">Pelican Bomb</a><br />
<a href="http://www.offbeat.com/news/local-hotel-celebrate-life-work-composer-john-cage-24-hour-loop-music/" target="_blank">Off Beat Magazine</a><br />
<a href="https://theviolinchannel.com/ace-hotel-john-cage-24-hour-marathon-music-105th-birthday/" target="_blank">The Violin Channel</a><br />
<a href="http://www.instantencore.com/buzz/feed.aspx?FeedId=5000610" target="_blank">Instant Encore</a><br />
<a href="http://slippedisc.com/2017/08/a-chain-of-hotels-is-playing-24-hours-of-john-cage/" target="_blank">Slipped Disc</a>*<br />
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*This last contained Sisto's favorite quote: "No, it's not the Hilton or the Marriott."<br />
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The image at the top, by the way, was created by plotting all of the Ace Hotel locations onto a world map.<br />
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Laura KuhnJohn Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-61415167731677324882017-08-23T10:09:00.002-04:002017-08-23T10:09:35.756-04:00Untouchable Numbers<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ac2ZkOKmXtA/WZ2IZbjGuXI/AAAAAAAABAA/bXFn86wdMw0aw0giEXqhg7lSsH9gZeL7QCLcBGAs/s1600/477130d5-a145-4ff0-bb35-41f1b214536a.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1080" data-original-width="1080" height="400" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ac2ZkOKmXtA/WZ2IZbjGuXI/AAAAAAAABAA/bXFn86wdMw0aw0giEXqhg7lSsH9gZeL7QCLcBGAs/s400/477130d5-a145-4ff0-bb35-41f1b214536a.jpg" width="400" /></a></div>
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<span style="font-size: 22px;">Ace Hotel and the John Cage Trust </span><br /><span style="font-size: 22px;">present </span><br /><em><span style="font-size: x-large;">Untouchable Numbers</span></em></h3>
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<i><span style="font-size: small;">A listening party curated by Mode Records.</span></i></h3>
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<span style="font-size: 14px;"><span class="gmail-m_-4895222543089734871m_-7898861654326828849gmail-m_2483303221640717197gmail-m_6761349748548504391gmail-m_4789034258712512921gmail-m_-9222033432732485293gmail-m_7165992253598593656gmail-aBn"><span class="gmail-m_-4895222543089734871m_-7898861654326828849gmail-m_2483303221640717197gmail-m_6761349748548504391gmail-m_4789034258712512921gmail-m_-9222033432732485293gmail-m_7165992253598593656gmail-aQJ">Tuesday, Sept. 5, 2017</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 14px;"></span></h3>
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<strong>(New York, NY) </strong> <strong><a href="http://www.acehotel.com/newyork" target="_blank">Ace Hotel</a> </strong>joins forces with<strong> </strong>the<strong> <a href="http://www.johncage.org/about.html" target="_blank">John Cage Trust</a> </strong>and <strong><a href="http://moderecords.com/" target="_blank">Mode Records</a> </strong>to celebrate the 105th birthday of the renowned composer, philosopher, and artist John Cage. Starting at <strong>12am</strong> on <strong>Tuesday, September 5</strong>, we'll broadcast Cage's compositions for a twenty-four hour period in Ace Hotel lobbies and public spaces worldwide. From Seattle to Pittsburgh, New Orleans to Los Angeles, and Chicago to London — we invite guests to immerse themselves in a day-long sonic experience.<br /> </div>
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<strong>About Ace Hotel </strong><br />Ace Hotel reimagines urban hotels for people who make cities interesting. We crave experience more than hospitality clichés. We are curious about the history and geography of the buildings we inhabit and let these guide us to someplace fresh and familiar. Ace is the low card and the high card. </div>
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And Ace Hotel in New York also has two pretty wonderful restaurants: The Breslin and The John Dory Oyster Bar!</div>
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Laura Kuhn</div>
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John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-92144434978536252262017-07-19T07:59:00.001-04:002017-07-19T11:26:05.994-04:00Alana Pagnutti's "Reception: The Radio-Works of Robert Rauschenberg and John Cage" (Smith+Brown, 2016)<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7L2_7zqQbRo/WWnx9083ctI/AAAAAAAAA-M/eZ1Sp1xCUe4B6bbSlyUgBBXn1mrT1rJpQCEwYBhgL/s1600/ChristineJones-Reception.3.jpeg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="853" data-original-width="1280" height="425" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7L2_7zqQbRo/WWnx9083ctI/AAAAAAAAA-M/eZ1Sp1xCUe4B6bbSlyUgBBXn1mrT1rJpQCEwYBhgL/s640/ChristineJones-Reception.3.jpeg" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Alana Pagnutti, <i>Reception: The Radio-Works of Robert Rauschenberg and John Cage </i><br />
(Smith+Brown, 2016 © Christine Jones)</td></tr>
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Pagnutti's work is the first comprehensive look at how Robert Rauschenberg and John Cage embraced and employed radio in some of their most sophisticated and experimental works between 1942 and 1991. These include Rauschenberg's artworks <i>Broadcast</i> (1959) and <i>Oracle</i> (1962-1965) and Cage's compositions <i>Imaginary Landscape No. 4</i> (1951), <i>Water Walk</i> (1959), and <i>Variations VII </i>(1966). Pagnutti considers how both men were influenced by Marshall McLuhan, and how both used radio to foster and provoke new qualities of experience and to elicit the participation of their audiences. Edited by <a href="http://victoria%20miguel%20london/" target="_blank">Victoria Miguel</a>, designed by Christine Jones, and with a beautiful foreword by <a href="http://www.anguscarlyle.com/" target="_blank">Angus Carlyle</a>, co-director of <a href="http://www.crisap.org/" target="_blank">Creative Research into Sound Arts Practice</a> (CRiSAP) at the <a href="http://www.arts.ac.uk/lcc/" target="_blank">London College of Communication</a> (UAL). Illustrated, 73 pp.<br />
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The official book launch took place at <a href="https://www.cafeoto.co.uk/" target="_blank">Cafe OTO</a> in London on July 10, 2017, 7-9 pm, with two performances by <a href="https://encoremusicians.com/Arthur-Bruce" target="_blank">Arthur Bruce</a> of Cage's W<i>ater Walk</i>. Fun to note that Bruce made use in his arsenal of instruments two of Cage's originals, on loan from the archives of the John Cage Trust: Cage's gong and one of his small, yarn-covered mallets.<br />
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Here's a little video excerpt of Bruce's performance (captured by filmmaker George South), where he uses both.<br />
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We offered the slightly dented pot lid that Cage used on occasion when touring (see below), but it was declined in favor of an actual cymbal, as called for in the score.<br />
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The wonderful photographer <a href="http://www.fabiolugaro.com/" target="_blank">Fabio Lugaro</a> was in attendance, and has kindly shared a few of his images below.<br />
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Laura Kuhn</div>
<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-65050624001896848242017-04-19T10:54:00.000-04:002017-04-19T10:54:14.813-04:00Notes from Underground, David Rose on John Cage<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<span style="text-align: center;">In my many years with the John Cage Trust, I've seen a lot of very fine writing about John Cage. <a href="http://www.johncage.org/blog/rose.pdf" target="_blank">This essay</a>, </span><i>Notes from Underground, Cage : Two (Diary and Letters)</i>, is <a href="http://www.fungimag.com/bios/rose.htm">David Rose</a>'s latest, and it's absolutely beautiful. Ostensibly, it's a review of both <i>The Selected Letters of John Cage</i> (Wesleyan University Press, 2016) and the first ever edition of all eight parts of Cage's <i>Diary: How to Improve the World (You'll Only Make Matters Worse)</i> (Siglio Press, 2015). But, it's far, far more. David is an avid mycologist, and he brings his passion for and insights into the art, science, and pure contemplation of mushrooms to this essay, so much so that I found myself reading it again and again. He also is spot on with regard to Cage's views on world improvement. I think John Cage would have been heartened to see that someone out there really understood his devotion.</div>
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This piece appears here in advance of publication courtesy of <i><a href="http://www.fungimag.com/">Fungi</a></i>, and its publisher and editor-in-chief, Britt Bunyard. Look for Volume 10:1, Spring 2017, coming out soon.<br />
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Laura KuhnJohn Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-91348787748651843712016-05-31T15:21:00.003-04:002016-05-31T15:21:53.091-04:00The Selected Letters of John Cage<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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Our annual "John Cage Evening" this year took place on Saturday, May 28, 6:30 p.m., at the home of hostess extraordinaire, Susan Hendrickson. I read a bit from the collection, and the discussion that followed with the invited guests was lively and informed. Click <a href="https://wavefarm.org/archive/y90e7m">here</a> for the archived broadcast by our local WGXC 90.7-FM.<br />
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<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-12292501928042477172016-05-08T12:46:00.001-04:002016-05-08T12:47:23.097-04:00Three Ends of the Cinematic SpectrumI have three three remarkable films to share with you, each (quite differently) related to John Cage:<br />
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First, because it's the newest, is Scorcese's latest*: <i>Shutter Island</i>, a genre thrilled based on the 2003 novel by Dennis Lehane with an extraordinary performance by Leonard DiCaprio. While I loved every inch of this film, I especially loved its soundtrack, compiled by Robbie Robertson, former lead guitarist of The Band, which weaves together music by Ligeti, Marshall, Penderecki, Scelsi, Feldman, Richter, Eno, Schnittke, Harrison, Adams, Hodgkinson, Mahler, Erickson, and Cage. Actually, two of Cage's works are heard -- <i>Root of an Unfocus</i> (Boris Berman, on Naxos) and<i> Music for Marcel Duchamp</i> (Philip Vandre, on Mode) -- and in just the right spots (no spoilers here)!<br />
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What's also included in Robertson's soundtrack that's received less than its critical due is Nam June Paik's <i>Hommage a John Cage </i>(1959-60), subtitled "Music for Tape Recorder and Piano." This was Paik's first staged action outside the boundaries of conventional music, significantly in the same venue Cage first presented his <i>Music Walk</i> the year before (Dusseldorf's Gallerie 22). Click <a href="http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/hommage-a-cage/">here</a> for a nice encapsulation, courtesy of Medien/Kunst/Netz, and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSREMldyFtg&feature=PlayList&p=4AE209302AFFF444&playnext=1&index=12">here</a> for a cool audio/visual clip, courtesy of the ubiquitous youtube.com.<br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">*Scorcese's working with 3-D technology for his next film, </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">The Invention of Hugo Cabret</span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">, based on the best-selling children's book by Brian Selznick recounting the story of a 12 year-old boy who lives in a Paris train station in the 1930s.</span><br />
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Second, because it's the most exquisite, is <i>as fast/slow as possible</i>, conceived and directed by the German filmmaker and airplane pilot <a href="http://home.vrweb.de/~paul.depprich/fastslow/">Paul Depprich</a>. "What is time? What is velocity?" So begins Depprich's ponderous concept statement about his 8 hour and 23 minute HD recording of a transatlantic flight from Berlin to New York. Depprich is exploring the discrepancies that exist between objective and subjective time and speed, having been deeply inspired by Cage's <i>As Slow As Possible</i>, currently and for the next 600+ years being glacially sounded in Halberstadt, Germany.<br />
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This is definitely one of those times when words can't describe experience, or, put in the reverse, when art reveals itself anew. What isn't so evident in Depprich's words is just how beautiful those discrepancies can be felt when vividly captured on HD video and experienced from a living room couch. As he points out, those phases of the flight that seem the fastest -- take-off and landing -- are actually the slowest, whereas when we're up in the air and seem timelessly afloat, we're moving at maximum speed.<br />
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You're seeing only the demo DVD here, lasting a mere 32'39". With luck, I'll be enticing the folks at the Anthology Film Archives here in New York to do a screening of Depprich's extraordinary whole in their upcoming season.<br />
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Third and last, because it's an archival find, is <i>Dove vai in vacanza? </i>(<i>Where Do You Go on Vacation?</i>)<i>, </i>a 1978 Italian gem comprising three independent episodes: <i>I'll be all for you</i>, directed by Mauro Bolognini, <i>Buana</i>, directed by Luciano Salce, and <i>Intelligent Holiday</i>s, directed by Alberto Sordi. It's the last that I'm bringing to your attention, since Cage's <i>4'33</i>" makes an extremely serious appearance here in what is otherwise a very funny scene.<br />
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The plot is simple: Remo (played by Sordi), a greengrocer, and his wife, Augusta (played by Anna Longhi), have been sent on a big city holiday by their snooty if well-meaning children, who, being close to graduation, wish their parents to experience something of their superior, learned ways before flying the coop. Remo and Augusta are treated to a number of mystifying cultural experiences on this holiday, including a meal of miniaturized food, a concert of unfathomable music, and a gallery exhibition that would do well today in Soho if painted sheep were still allowed.<br />
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While I'd recommend that you see this entire film, it's virtually impossible to come by. So, let me share at least the concert attended that includes the performance of Cage's <i>4'33"</i> (which lasts a timid 2'14"). And do forgive the audio quality of this clip, which was lifted from a very aged VHS tape. The soundtrack, by the way, is by none other than Ennio Morricone, released as an LP in 1979 by RCA Italian (BL 31435).<br />
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There's a potential prize in store for those of you who've made it to the end of this lengthy blog: something hot off the press from the John Cage Trust to the first 10 people who correctly identify the <i>other</i> works on the program.<br />
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Laura Kuhn</div>
John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-35791701707243814172016-05-01T06:30:00.000-04:002016-05-01T06:30:12.857-04:00"Grammy Salute to Music Legends"<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i>John Cage is best known as a composer, but he was also a philosopher, a poet, a chess master, a visual artist, a diarist, a mycologist, and an enthusiastic macrobiotic cook. As his biographer Ken Silverman once put it, turn over <u>any</u> rock and there's John Cage.</i><br />
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<i>Cage was influential from the start, his radical new ideas reaching creative individuals across generations and disciplines. His prepared piano of the 1940s gave rise to beautiful and enduring compositions, and his notoriously tacit </i>4'33"<i> of 1952 -- a composition in which <u>no</u> sounds are intentionally made by the performer -- continues to spark imaginations around the world.</i><br />
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<i>His Black Mountain mixed media "event" of the same year was the progenitor of the popular theatrical form later known as the "happening." And the implications to the whole of Western music history of Cage's late-life time-bracket notation -- resulting in works that can <u>never</u> be played the same way twice -- have yet to be fully felt.</i><br />
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<i>From 1950 John Cage adapted Buddhist practices to composition and performance, allowing complex chance operations to guide all of his work. In this way, he succeeded in bringing both authentic spiritual ideas and a liberating attitude of play to the enterprise of Western art. I am honored to accept this Special Merit Award from The Recording Academy on his behalf.</i><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">Acceptance Remarks by Laura Kuhn, "Grammy Salute to Music Legends," </span></div>
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The "Grammy Salute to Music Legends" ceremony in Los Angeles, which ran for nearly four hours, was spirited and lavish. There were 13 recipients, across four categories -- Lifetime Achievement Awards, Trustees Awards (Cage, Fred Foster, Chris Strachwitz), Technical Grammy Awards (both individuals and companies), and Music Educator Awards. In addition to John Cage, awards were given to a diverse group of individuals and ensembles: Ruth Brown, Celia Cruz, Earth, Wind & Fire, Herbie Hancock, Jefferson Airplane, Linda Ronstadt, Run DMC, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Foster">Fred Foster</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Strachwitz">Chris Strachwitz</a>, EMT, <a href="http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/2708-Moss-Ave-Los-Angeles-CA-90065_rb/?fromHomePage=true&shouldFireSellPageImplicitClaimGA=false&fromHomePageTab=buy">Dr. Harvey Fletcher</a>, and <a href="http://www.ncssm.edu/directory/phillip-riggs">Phillip Riggs</a>. Many of the recipients were further honored with a staged performance of one kind or another of their work -- for Cage, we were treated to excellent renditions of <i>Water Walk</i> (<a href="http://www.houstonsymphony.org/About-Us/Houston-Symphony-Musicians/Sections/Violas/Anthony-Parce">Anthony Parce</a>) and <i>The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs</i> (<a href="http://www.jnaibridgesmezzo.com/artist.php?view=bio">J'nai Bridges</a> and <a href="http://www.richardvalitutto.net/">Richard Valitutto</a>). And the Cage portion of the program, including my acceptance remarks, was preceded by a beautiful videotaped introduction by our great friend, the extraordinary conductor and composer Michael Tilson Thomas.<br />
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John Cage is once again in interesting company. Past individuals to receive the Trustees Award have included George Avakian (2009), The Beatles (1972), Hoagy Carmichael (2005), Alan Lomax (2003), George Martin (1996), Cole Porter (1989), Phil Spector (2000), and Leopold Stokowski (1977), among many others.<br />
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The Grammy Award itself is very beautiful -- small and surprisingly heavy -- and now has a pride of place at the John Cage Trust. I'm not at all sure what Cage himself would have thought about all of this, but I like to think that acknowledgement of any kind is to be both appreciated and cherished. Thank you again to The Recording Academy, on his behalf.<br />
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Laura KuhnJohn Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-79174525757127136082016-04-19T11:36:00.000-04:002016-04-19T11:36:13.995-04:00John Cage at the Grammy's!<div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-size: 14pt;">THE RECORDING ACADEMY<sup>®</sup> TO HONOR 2016 SPECIAL MERIT AWARDS RECIPIENTS WITH NEW TELEVISION SPECIAL "GRAMMY SALUTE TO MUSIC LEGENDS<sup>®</sup>" AS PART OF LANDMARK "GREAT PERFORMANCES" SERIES ON PBS<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 14pt;">AWARDS CEREMONY AND TRIBUTE CONCERT TO <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 14pt;">TAKE PLACE SATURDAY, APRIL 23, 2016 AT <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 14pt;">THE DOLBY THEATER IN LOS ANGELES<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">SANTA MONICA, Calif. (March 29, 2016)</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> —<a href="http://www.grammy.org/" style="color: purple;"><b>The Recording Academy</b><sup>®</sup></a><sup> </sup> will honor its<b> 2016 Special Merit Awards </b>recipients with an awards ceremony and live tribute concert on <b>Saturday, April 23, 2016</b> at The Dolby Theater in Los Angeles. Dubbed <b>"GRAMMY Salute to Music Legends," </b>the event will be produced in partnership with THIRTEEN as part of the <b>"Great Performances"</b> series on PBS, set to air later this year. Led by music industry icon Don Was as musical director, the tribute concert will feature rare performances by honorees and never-seen renditions by those they've inspired. Tickets for the event will be on sale via <a href="http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/09005070D1503A8D" style="color: purple;">Ticketmaster</a> beginning Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 10:00 am PST.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">This year's Lifetime Achievement Award honorees include <b>Ruth Brown</b>, <b>Celia Cruz</b>, <b>Earth, Wind & Fire</b>, <b>Herbie Hancock</b>, <b>Jefferson Airplane</b>, <b>Linda Ronstadt</b>, and <b>RUN DMC</b>. <b>John Cage</b>, <b>Fred Foster</b>, and <b>Chris Strachwitz </b>are <b>Trustees Award</b> honorees; and<b> EMT </b>and<b> Dr. Harvey Fletcher</b> are <b>Technical GRAMMY<sup>®</sup> Award</b> recipients. Also being honored is <b>Phillip Riggs</b>, this year's recipient of the <b>GRAMMY Foundation Music Educator Award</b>. Performers will be announced shortly. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Previously held during GRAMMY Week, this is the first time that The Recording Academy has celebrated the Special Merit Awards with a stand-alone event and musical tribute. In addition to the tribute concert, special celebrity guests will present recipients their award statues and guests will enjoy never-before-seen video packages celebrating each of the honorees' contributions to the music industry and our cultural heritage.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">"For many years now, we've wanted to honor Special Merit Awards recipients on a larger scale with an event like 'GRAMMY Salute to Music Legends,' so I'm delighted to partner with THIRTEEN Productions and PBS to bring this worthy celebration to a bigger stage," said Neil Portnow, President/CEO of The Recording Academy. "The contributions of our honorees are innumerable, and we look forward to an unforgettable evening as we pay tribute to their exceptional accomplishments."<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">A production of THIRTEEN Productions LLC for WNET, "GRAMMY Salute to Music Legends" will be written by David Wild and directed for television by David Horn, with Mitch Owgang as producer, and David Horn and Neil Portnow as executive producers.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">The Lifetime Achievement Award honors performers who have made contributions of outstanding artistic significance to the field of recording, while the Trustees Award recognizes such contributions in areas other than performance. Both awards are determined by vote of The Recording Academy's National Board of Trustees. Technical GRAMMY Award recipients are determined by vote of The Academy's Producers & Engineers Wing<sup>®</sup> Advisory Council and Chapter Committees, and are ratified by The Academy's Trustees. The award is presented to individuals and companies who have made contributions of outstanding technical significance to the recording field.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><u><span style="font-size: 11pt;">About the Lifetime Achievement Award Honorees</span></u></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Ruth Brown*</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> began her musical career in the church choir at the tender age of 4. A singer/songwriter, record producer, composer, and actress noted for bringing a pop music style to R&B music, Brown became one of the undisputed architects of the genre. <span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">She recorded a number of hit songs, including "I'll Wait For You," "I Know," "5-10-15 Hours," and "Mambo Baby." She later went on to have a successful theater career.</span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Celia Cruz* </span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">was one of the most popular salsa singers and performers in history. Known internationally as the "Queen of Salsa," the Cuban-American Cruz was a larger-than life-personality. She recorded 23 gold albums and was a recipient of the United States National Medal of Arts. Cruz received three GRAMMY Awards and four Latin GRAMMY Awards.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Six-time GRAMMY<b> </b>winners <b>Earth, Wind & Fire</b> were one of the most important and innovative contemporary pop/R&B musical forces of the 20th century. Members Philip Bailey, Larry Dunn, Johnny Graham, Ralph Johnson, Al McKay, Fred White, Maurice White*, Verdine White, and Andrew Woolfolk built the group's distinctive signature sound, which has remained profoundly influential. Successfully breaking down all musical genre boundaries since forming in 1969, they recorded seven #1 R&B singles and eight Top 10 pop albums. Earth Wind & Fire earned more than 50 gold and platinum album certifications and more than 90 million albums worldwide, placing them on the list of best-selling musical artists of all time. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">One of the most revered and idiosyncratic figures in jazz, <b>Herbie Hancock</b> has been at the forefront almost every development in electronic and acoustic jazz and R&B. <span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; letter-spacing: -0.2pt;">A stylistically diverse and ever-intriguing canon of songs, including "Maiden Voyage" and "Rockit,</span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt; letter-spacing: -0.2pt;"> has </span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">helped earn him 14 GRAMMY Awards during his impressive five-decade-plus professional solo career.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #252525; font-size: 11pt;">Marty Balin, Jack Casady, Spencer Dryden</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">*<span style="color: #252525;">, Paul Kantner*, Jorma Kaukonen, and Grace Slick comprised <b>Jefferson Airplane</b>, pioneers of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>counterculture-era<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>psychedelic rock. Emerging from the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>San Francisco scene<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>to achieve international mainstream success, performing at the three most famous American<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>rock festivals<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>of the 1960s — Monterey<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(1967),<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Woodstock<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(1969), and<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Altamont<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(1969). Their 1967 album<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Surrealistic Pillow</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>is regarded as one of the key recordings of the "Summer of Love." Two hits from that album, "Somebody To Love" and "White Rabbit,"<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>are among<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Rolling Stone's</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>"500 Greatest Songs of All Time."</span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #fafafa; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; color: #1a1a1a; font-size: 11pt;">With roots in the Los Angeles country and folk-rock scenes, <b>Linda Ronstadt</b> is one of the most popular interpretive singers of all time, earning a string of platinum-selling albums and Top 40 singles. Throughout the 1970s, her laid-back pop never lost sight of her folky roots, yet as Ronstadt moved into the 1980s, she began to change her sound with the times, adding new wave influences. Her later years saw the 10-time GRAMMY winner exploring traditional pop, Latin, and musical theater. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">RUN DMC,</span></b><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;"> comprising of Darryl </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">DMC</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;"> McDaniels, Jason </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">Jam Master Jay</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;"> Mizell</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">*,</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;"> and Joseph </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">Reverend Run</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">"</span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;"> Simmons, were one of the most influential and best-known acts in the history of rap. They were the first group in the genre to have a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>gold album<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(<i>RUN DMC.</i>, 1984) and to be nominated for a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>GRAMMY Award.<sup> </sup>They were also the first hip-hop group to earn a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>platinum record<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>(<i>King Of Rock</i>, 1985), and the first to earn multiplatinum certification (<i>Raising Hell</i>, 1986).<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">About the Trustees Award Honorees:<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></div>
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<b><span lang="EN" style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">John Cage* </span></b><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt; letter-spacing: -0.2pt;">was an avant-garde composer whose inventive works and unorthodox ideas profoundly influenced the entire music industry.</span><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;"> His innovative ideas on composition and performance influenced a broad spectrum of artists including fellow musicians, dancers, choreographers, painters and more. </span><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">Cage<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>remained on the leading edge of both playful and profound experimentalism for the greater part of his career. One of Cage's best-known and most sonically intriguing innovations, the prepared piano, has become an almost commonplace compositional resource. </span><b><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Music entrepreneur <b>Fred Foster</b> contributed a great deal to the Nashville music scene of the 1960s and 1970s as a producer and as the head of one of the city's strongest independent labels, Monument Records. He is best known for producing many classic hits by Roy Orbison. He also played a vital role in the career of Kris Kristofferson, and worked with Willie Nelson, Dolly Parton, Ray Stevens, among others. From 1960 to 1964, Foster produced the overwhelming bulk of hit songs with which Orbison is associated: "Only The Lonely," "In Dreams," "Running Scared," "Blue Bayou," "Blue Angel," "Dream Baby," "Crying," "Candy Man," "Mean Woman Blues," "It's Over," and "Oh, Pretty Woman." <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">Chris Strachwitz </span></b><span style="color: windowtext; font-size: 11pt;">has made his living celebrating the music he loves – music that forms the fabric of both American and international culture. He is the founder of Arhoolie Records and produces much of the content he releases. To blues fans he is a legend, releasing seminal works by Mississippi Fred McDowell, Mance Lipscomb, Charlie Musselwhite, Rebirth Brass Band, Big Joe Williams, Big Mama Thornton, Lightnin' Hopkins, Earl Hooker, and Elizabeth Cotten, and many others. Strachwitz also produces Cajun music, highlighted by his releases by Clifton Chenier, and also focused on Mexican recordings, especially Norteño music.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">About the Technical GRAMMY Award Recipients:<span style="background-color: yellow; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></u></b></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 11pt;">Known as the </span><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 11pt;">father of stereophonic sound, <b>Dr.</b> <b>Harvey Fletcher</b>* was a prominent physicist, credited with inventing the hearing aid and the first audiometer. </span><span style="color: windowtext; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 11pt;">Through his research, he was able to document and demonstrate the spatial effects of sound, which he called auditory perspective, or stereo. However, it was his profound interest in music that led Fletcher to partner with Leopold Stokowski and the Philadelphia Orchestra, and this collaboration produced more than 100 stereo recordings. In his tests, listeners were often unable to distinguish the difference between the live orchestra and the recordings. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: windowtext; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 11pt;">EMT (Elektro-Mess-Technik) </span></b><span style="color: windowtext; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 11pt;">was founded<b> </b>in Berlin in 1940, originally manufacturing high-end <span style="letter-spacing: -0.15pt;">pro measuring devices and turntables for broadcast, television, and recording studios</span>. In 1957, the company made a huge breakthrough with the release of the EMT 140 Reverberation Unit — the first plate reverb. Upon its introduction, the EMT 140 Reverberation Unit quickly garnered popularity, providing a smoother substitute to spring reverb systems, simplifying the process of affecting recorded sound while providing the engineer with a more versatile and customizable interface than acoustic chambers. With the plates' introduction, the sound of popular music changed dramatically as evident in English recordings made at Abbey Road by the Beatles and Pink Floyd, as well as RCA Victor recordings by Nashville’s Chet Atkins and many others.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">*Denotes posthumous award<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Established in 1957, The Recording Academy is an organization of musicians, songwriters, producers, engineers, and recording professionals dedicated to improving the cultural condition and quality of life for music and its makers. Internationally known for the GRAMMY Awards — the preeminent peer-recognized award for musical excellence and the most credible brand in music — The Recording Academy is responsible for groundbreaking professional development, cultural enrichment, advocacy, education, and human services programs. The Academy continues to focus on its mission of recognizing musical excellence, advocating for the well-being of music makers and ensuring music remains an indelible part of our culture. For more information about The Academy, please visit <a href="file://///sm-fs01/comms/communic/stephanieS/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.Outlook/7XUCH8O0/www.grammy.com" style="color: purple;">www.grammy.com</a>. For breaking news and exclusive content, follow @TheGRAMMYs on <a href="https://twitter.com/TheGRAMMYs" style="color: purple;">Twitter</a>, "like" The GRAMMYs on <a href="https://www.facebook.com/TheGRAMMYs" style="color: purple;">Facebook</a> and join The GRAMMYs' social communities on <a href="https://plus.google.com/+TheGRAMMYs/posts" style="color: purple;">Google+</a>, <a href="http://instagram.com/thegrammys" style="color: purple;">Instagram</a>, <a href="http://thegrammys.tumblr.com/" style="color: purple;">Tumblr</a>, and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGRAMMYs" style="color: purple;">YouTube</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"># # # <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Media Contacts:<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Neda Azarfar<b> <o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">The Recording Academy <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">310.392.3777 <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><a href="mailto:neda.azarfar@grammy.com" style="color: purple;">neda.azarfar@grammy.com</a> </span></i></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Andie Cox<b><i><o:p></o:p></i></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">The Recording Academy<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-12467047197233183682016-04-18T08:03:00.000-04:002016-04-18T08:03:40.949-04:00John Cage's "How to Get Started" (1989-)<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vIPoBX_X-9A/VxOmUnZriQI/AAAAAAAAA48/4EwtxoGC8vw4q8hxPUOEvw2_kNORzDwdwCLcB/s1600/Screen%2B1.jpeg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="265" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vIPoBX_X-9A/VxOmUnZriQI/AAAAAAAAA48/4EwtxoGC8vw4q8hxPUOEvw2_kNORzDwdwCLcB/s400/Screen%2B1.jpeg" width="400" /></a></div>
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On August 20, 1989, John Cage finished up at the Telluride “Composer-to-Composer Festival”
and headed for the Skywalker Ranch in Nicasio, California, where he would participate in “Sound Design: An Invitational Conference on the Uses of Sound
for Radio Drama, Film, Video, Theater and Music” (Aug. 29-31), hosted by Bay Area Radio
Drama.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He planned to present a portion
of his <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">James Joyce, Marcel Duchamp, Erik
Satie: An Alphabet</i> (1982), a whimsical radio play he’d earlier created for Klaus Schöning and Cologne’s
WDR.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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Cage left Telluride feeling slightly unsettled by an
altercation he’d had with a fellow composer – Anthony Davis.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Each of the composers was given time to speak
about their current work, addressing the group with particular problems they
were encountering and eliciting advice. At his designated afternoon session, Davis wanted to talk about incorporating improvisation within the context of an otherwise fully notated score. Uncharacteristically, Cage dismissed this as an unimportant concern.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-96rKryH2Nys/VxOzSIx2P6I/AAAAAAAAA6Q/pO_2-62FzZo7QeHeO_38Xoxn18TSXxzQACKgB/s1600/Cage%2B%2526%2BBranches.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="209" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-96rKryH2Nys/VxOzSIx2P6I/AAAAAAAAA6Q/pO_2-62FzZo7QeHeO_38Xoxn18TSXxzQACKgB/s320/Cage%2B%2526%2BBranches.jpg" width="320" /></a>Most folks think that Cage was summarily against
improvisation. From his vantage point, and as generally practiced, there were all manner of things to overcome: control, emotion, style, personality, hierarchy, intuition, celebrity, habit, intention. On the surface, then, Cage's dismissal of Davis's preoccupation seems entirely sensible. If history is witness, however, it might be truer to say that Cage <u>was</u> interested in improvisation, but in a kind of improvisation
whereby one's actions, indeed one's end result, couldn’t be entirely controlled or foreseen.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This was certainly the case with his co-called “music
of contingency,” exemplified by such compositions as his <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Child of Tree (Improvisation I)</i> (1975) and <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Branches</i> (1976). Both of these works make use of unruly plant matter as musical instruments, and Cage aptly described them as a kind of "improvisation in which there is a discontinuity between cause and effect."<br />
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And two of the so-called "number" pieces from 1992, the last year of his life – <i>Four<sup>6</sup></i>
and <i>One<sup>12</sup></i> – were described by Cage as "structural improvisations."<br />
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For the Bay Area Radio Drama conference, Cage abandoned his idea to
present <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Alphabet</i>, and instead devised
a new work. Eliciting the collaboration of two on-site recording engineers, Dennis
Leonard and Bob Schumacher, he made a proposition.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Having written ten topics of concern on ten
index cards, Cage wanted to extemporize in turn on each one, their order determined by chance, while the
engineers recorded and played back his performances.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> And so it went. </span>For his performance, Cage extemporized on topic one, which was duly recorded.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>While he extemporized on topic
two, topic one was played back in the room, and both were recorded.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>While he extemporized on topic three, topics
one and two combined were played back in the room, and all three were recorded.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And so forth.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> Cage's extemporizations along the way were inevitably altered by what he was hearing. In one, he clearly loses his train of thought, laughs, then forges ahead. </span>At the end, all ten were simultaneously played
back, layered upon one another in a happy, McLuhanesque jumble.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p><br />
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When Cage returned to New York, he went back to work on his
Harvard lectures, making no mention of his time in Nicasio.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Weeks later, a cassette arrived from Eva
Soltes at Bay Area Radio Drama, marked simply “J. Cage, How to Get Started.” <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Cage acknowledged this likely contained his Nicasio presentation, and without further conversation the cassette was shelved.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
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<a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HVylOMIxdJ8/VxTMNmGXdCI/AAAAAAAAA6s/uG02JhZqpfk7_-KNF2RislHNY368bKx9QCLcB/s1600/install3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="277" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HVylOMIxdJ8/VxTMNmGXdCI/AAAAAAAAA6s/uG02JhZqpfk7_-KNF2RislHNY368bKx9QCLcB/s320/install3.jpg" width="320" /></a>Long after Cage’s death, I rediscovered the recording in the archives of the John Cage Trust and
set to work transcribing it. Having both the tape and transcription in hand, I approached Aaron Levy at <a href="https://slought.org/" target="_blank">Slought Foundation</a> in Philadelphia to explore
the possibility of a collaboration between our two organizations that might somehow extend its life.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What
resulted is a permanent interactive installation at Slought that enables the
public to create their own realizations, adding yet another layer of recordings to the historical mix.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A <a href="http://www.howtogetstarted.org/" target="_blank">dedicated website</a> was quickly created, which serves as an evolving
digital repository and archive for the recordings being ongoingly generated.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><br />
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The website also hosts Cage’s introduction to
the work as well as audio portions of his one and only performance.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Cage’s topics ran the gamut between nearly life-long
interests on the one hand – silence (60), harmony (10), time (8) – and, on the
other, emerging ideas about new compositions (1, 3).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> His e</span>xperiences at
“Composer-to-Composer” are brought to bear on several (1, 2, 6), while others
emphasize specific extant compositions, considered in the present tense (2,
4, 5, 7, 8, 9).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And more than two dozen
individuals who were relevant to his thinking at the time are sprinkled
throughout. Here's a little Wordle Cloud of all ten of Cage's extemporized texts:</div>
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To date, we’ve performed the work live, with the public, several
times, most recently April 8-9, 2016, here at Bard College, in
the Conservatory of Music’s Bito Auditorium. Participants were Roger Berkowitz, Olive Carrollhach, David Degge,
Brian Dewan, John Kelly, Chris Mann, Pauline Oliveros, Jamie Parry, and Bobby
Previte. Our usual technical team -- Aaron Levy and myself, curators/producers, Peter Price, collaborating sound engineer, and Ken Saylor, staging and design -- was augmented by Emily Martin, photographer, and Seth Chrisman, a composer and resident sound engineer at Bard. <br />
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The realizations were stupendous and remarkably different! While these are all available on our website, to whet your appetite I've included three here,
randomly selected:</div>
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<a href="http://howtogetstarted.org/guest.php?id=1093">Chris Mann</a><br />
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<a href="http://howtogetstarted.org/guest.php?id=1095" target="_blank">John Kelly</a><o:p></o:p></div>
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<a href="http://howtogetstarted.org/guest.php?id=1094" target="_blank">Olive Carrollhach</a><o:p></o:p></div>
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And just for fun, </div>
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<a href="http://howtogetstarted.org/guest.php?id=1090" target="_blank">Pauline Oliveros</a> <span style="font-size: x-small;">(who was present at Cage's performance in Nicasio and who garnered a standing ovation at Bard)</span></div>
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<i>How to Get Started</i> is an amazing work, both to hear and to perform. Realizations are as distinct as snowflakes, and always disarmingly honest and complex. Each reveals the performer's willingness to share, and to experiment with thinking out loud. To arrange a visit to Slought, or to schedule your own
realization, click <a href="https://slought.org/where_we_are/plan_your_visit" target="_blank">here</a>.</div>
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">All photos ©Emily Martin</span><br />
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Laura Kuhn<o:p></o:p></div>
John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-17509925202755906612015-12-16T13:29:00.001-05:002015-12-19T15:58:04.201-05:004'33" Lives On!<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GC8jXXIzGkA/VnGGbZZXfjI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/6QcX5O4SbBw/s1600/%25C2%25A9Lisa%2BMacbride%2B%25282015%2529.jpeg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GC8jXXIzGkA/VnGGbZZXfjI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/6QcX5O4SbBw/s400/%25C2%25A9Lisa%2BMacbride%2B%25282015%2529.jpeg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">©Lisa Macbride (2015)<br />
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<span style="font-size: small;">The web can be a lonely place for content providers. Mostly you spend way too much time on whatever you'd like to share, then carefully upload it and send it out into the world. Silence. Without fanfare or further ado, you're on to the next task.</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;">Not so with our <b><a href="http://www.johncage.org/4_33.html"><i>4'33"</i>App</a></b>, which garners a lot of feedback. This comes mostly in the form of audio uploads to its global map, but also in occasional communications. For example, we recently received a beautiful email from a Cage enthusiast in Germany, one Dr. Peter Hallberg, a retired painter, philosopher, and teacher. For Dr. Hallberg, the <b><i>4'33"</i> App</b> provides not only music but a means of rapid transport to other times and places:</span></div>
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<i>When I hear for example "Davis Summer Morning July 7, 2013"</i><br />
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<i>or "Davis Thunderstorm Sept. 2, 2013,"</i><br />
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<i>I can also hear the atmosphere of a special moment, in a special place at a special time in the past, now timeless, of a real person living far away from me in America. Later I add other thunderstorms, one at my home, near Kassel, and another at the seaside of Rügen.</i>*</div>
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*<span style="font-size: x-small;">Dr. Hallberg's uploads to the <b><i>4'33"</i> App</b>, captured to date throughout Germany as well as in Sicily and Cuba, may be found under his pseudonym, PiTTo.</span><br />
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<i>The <b>4'33" App</b> gives me a chance to travel -- without moving, without wasting time, no change of places, traveling by mind, leaving the body behind, concentrated on my hearing sense, not being distracted by the power of pictures, by night or by day.</i></div>
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<i>There are some Russian students on their way by train between Saint Petersburg and Moscow. I am with them.</i><br />
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<i> An old English Professor of History, Sir John Huxtable Elliott, lets me share moments of his private life in Spain and North Africa. I follow the Austrian composer Karlheinz Essel to Salzburg and Madeira, and, surprisingly, some days later, I meet him on the Isle of Rügen, where I physically was just days before.</i></div>
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<i>I join a young woman in her home in the middle of Russia (Tomsk), and then follow Charles Amirkhanian to San Francisco, where I've been twice, meeting him a moment later in Costa Rica, then at his stopover in Germany (Nürnberg), and finally in Sicily, where I later traveled and added recordings of my own.</i><i> </i><br />
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<i>Now back home again in the middle of Deutschland, this App allows me to travel back again and again. </i><i>And at the same time, I always know that other people can live together with me in every 4'33" recording, wherever I am or will be.</i></div>
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<i>This year I visited a small, fantastic Island, belonging to Cuba, called Cayo Coco. </i><br />
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<i>With the <b>4'33" App</b> I am able to return there, whenever I want. When I will have left this globe, my friends, family, and others will be able to relive some special moments with me.</i></div>
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<i>Isn't it phantastic?</i></div>
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<a href="http://www.pkstonemusic.com/index.html" target="_blank">Phil Stone</a>, with <a href="http://www.larsonassoc.org/" target="_blank">Larry Larson</a> one of two developers of the <b><i>4'33"</i> App</b>, was touched:<br />
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<i>It is very gratifying to read of Dr. Hallberg's enjoyment of the <b>4'33" App</b>. I didn't anticipate the "aural travelogue" aspect when we first came up with the "World of 4'33"" idea, but it has become one of my favorite things. People have been taking photos of special places they visit since the camera was invented, but I think it is a relatively new idea to capture a sonic "portrait." The simple power of Cage's piece is that it calms the mind and focuses it on the sonic environment, putting a three-movement frame around the sound of a given time and place. Our <b>4'33" App</b> has taken the "place" part of that equation and mapped it onto a browsable world, allowing "traveling by mind," as Dr. Hallberg so eloquently puts it, in a way that seems much more powerful than merely viewing pictures of some faraway land.</i></div>
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And Gene Caprioglio, Head of Rights and Licensing at C.F. Peters (as well as guitarist with the New York dance band <a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/mixedmeta5">Mixed Meta5</a>), was also moved to respond:<br />
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<i>I always thought of the <b>4'33" App</b> as a sonic travelogue or sonic snapshot. Dr. Hallberg gets that completely. I was recently re-reading David Byrne's fantastic book, </i>How Music Works <i>(McSweeney's, 2012)</i>, <i>and came upon the section where he discusses the struggle between ears and eyes for human perceptual dominance. He thinks the eyes have won. Dr. Hallberg's reference to "not being distracted by the power of pictures" brought that to mind. We have lost a lot by our dependence on the visual at the expense of the aural. I think Cage knew it back in 1952.</i></div>
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<i><span style="font-size: x-large;">~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~</span></i></div>
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In celebration of the holidays this year, our gift to you is a weekly tweet of our favorite uploads to the <b><i>4'33"</i> App</b>. Follow us on Twitter: @johncagetrust<br />
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Laura Kuhn<br />
<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-41452572631506346262015-09-01T12:10:00.002-04:002015-09-01T12:10:58.399-04:00Diary: How to Improve the World (You Will Only Make Matters Worse)<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Gb4wh2dPZqE/VeNQ_vWNwgI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/enoZ2VPlc2s/s1600/Cage_Diary_cover-object-shot.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Gb4wh2dPZqE/VeNQ_vWNwgI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/enoZ2VPlc2s/s400/Cage_Diary_cover-object-shot.jpg" width="280" /></a>For the first time ever, all eight parts of Cage's <i>Diary: How to Improve the World (You Will Only Make Matters Worse)</i> will soon be available in a beautiful collected edition from Siglio Press, coedited by Joe Biel and Richard Kraft. Composed over the course of sixteen years, Cage's <i>Diary</i> is both prescient and personal, a 16-year repository of observations, anecdotes, proclivities, obsessions, and stories that traverse territory ranging from the domestic minutiae of everyday life to ideas about how to feed the world.<br />
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Cage typed his entries on an IBM Selectric, using chance to determine word count, typeface, number of letters per line, patterns of indentation, and (in the case of Part Three, published as a Great Bear Pamphlet by Something Else Press) color. In Siglio's hands the unusual visual variances on the page become almost musical as language takes on a physical and aural presence.<br />
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Siglio is an independent press in Los Angeles dedicated to publishing uncommon books that live at the intersection of art and literature. Their publications are cross-disciplinary, hybrid works that subvert paradigms, defy categorization, and reveal unexpected connections. Siglio believes that challenging work can be immensely appealing, and that books are as much a pleasure to touch and hold as they are to read. In every sense, John Cage's <i>Diary</i> finds itself perfectly at home. <br />
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To pre-order, click <a href="http://sigliopress.com/book/diary-how-to-improve-the-world/">here</a>.<br />
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Laura Kuhn<br />
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P.S. And in case anyone is wondering, there's an incomplete Part Nine, held in its original within the text manuscript collection at the John Cage Trust. Here's a particularly fun little sneak peak:<br />
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John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-23617958472956669842015-06-27T08:37:00.001-04:002015-06-27T08:37:56.693-04:004'33" in Johannesburg<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
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<span style="font-size: large;">Ah, had John Cage lived to see <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/26/diplomat-silent-433-johannesburg-john-cage">this</a>!</span><br />
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<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-1904515647932389762015-06-25T18:52:00.000-04:002015-06-25T18:52:03.082-04:00Cage and Nancarrow (1989)<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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This really isn't a blog, as it's far too long (and lacking any bells and whistles), but it seemed the best way to publicly share a conversation that took place between John Cage and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conlon_Nancarrow">Conlon Nancarrow</a> in Telluride, Colorado, in 1989. This was in the context of the Composer-to-Composer Institute that year, headed up by Charles Amirkhanian and John Lifton, involving, in addition to Cage and Nancarrow, Morton Subotnick, Joan La Barbara, Trimpin, Anthony Davis, Laurie Spiegel, and many others. Cage and Nancarrow hadn't seen each other in years.<br />
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It's posted here today to coincide with the second week of the <a href="http://whitney.org/Exhibitions/ConlonNancarrow">"Anywhere in Time: A Conlon Nancarrow Festival"</a> taking place at the Whitney Museum of American Art in New York. Yesterday, co-curators Jay Sanders and Dominic Murcott hosted an afternoon comprising two events -- this recording (in an abbreviated version) enhancing a conversation between the two on the subject of Cage and Nancarrow, which was preceded by a spirited exchange between Murcott and Kyle Gann, author of <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Music-Conlon-Nancarrow-Twentieth-Century/dp/0521028078">The Music of Conlon Nancarrow</a></i> (Cambridge University Press, 1996), on the subject of Nancarrow's amazing music for player pianos. Gann also maintains a Nancarrow Webpage, available <a href="http://www.kylegann.com/index2.html">here</a>. This afternoon, in the same third floor space, Amirkhanian presented "Nancarrow Deconstructed." I've learned a tremendous amount from the proceedings, and have had a marvelous time watching a player piano very much like Nancarrow's own realize a number of his works.<br />
<br />
The recording from the John Cage Trust is available in its entirety <a href="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/211936514&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true">here</a>, which, because it's old and archival, is not the highest audio quality. To facilitate listening, I'm including a lengthy transcript of their conversation below. You can read as you listen if you like, which might make things inaudible a little more audible. Enjoy!<br />
<br />
Laura Kuhn<br />
<br />
<br />
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 16.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CONLON NANCARROW & JOHN CAGE <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: Courier; font-size: 18.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">In conversation, moderated by Charles Amirkhanian</span></b><br />
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">COMPOSER-TO-COMPOSER
<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Telluride Institute
</span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Sunday, Aug. 20, 1989 <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Recorded and transcribed by Laura Kuhn</span></b><b><o:p> </o:p></b><br />
<b><o:p><br /></o:p></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Composer Participants: </span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">John Cage
(JC)
<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Conlon
Nancarrow (CN) <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Charles
Amirkhanian (CA) <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">John Lifton
(JL)</span></b><br />
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Guest Participants:
<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Questions from the audience (**) </span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span></b><br />
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Gift-giving ceremony at end: <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">John Lifton (JL)</span></b><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"> </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 17.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">************</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Since John and Conlon really didn't meet
each other until much later in their composing careers -- John working on the
West Coast, Conlon having gone to Spain with the Lincoln Brigade and then to
Mexico -- it would interest me to know how you first met. Did you, Conlon, when
you came back to the U.S.in '47 to build the punching machine, hear about John?
</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It was before that. John doesn't remember
but I heard the first performance of his prepared piano. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, really? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>The one in your apartment, remember? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Which apartment? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, I don't know if you were living
there but Minna Lederman told me to go there and gave me a sort of… It was a
private thing, there was just a few people there. I remember Virgil Thomson was
there, and a few other people. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Was that on the river?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think so. It was in '39. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>'39? Pardon me, but I wasn't there then. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<i><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></i></span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Well, you had to be. In '39? Well, your piano was! <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You were in Seattle then?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span><span style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic;">No<i>,
</i></span>I was in San Francisco.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<i><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></i></span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">All of '39? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Seattle or San Francisco. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>When was the first trip to New York? '43? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>When I left the West Coast I spent a year
in Chicago, which was in the early '40s. It must have been '42, or '43, that I
settled in New York for the first time. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You did the big concert at the Museum of
Modern Art. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In '42, wasn't it? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Was it '42? So, I wonder when that was. It
couldn't have been in '47? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It couldn't have been in '39. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. Well, wait a minute. Could it have
been? When was the first time you had anything with the prepared piano? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There are some people who think that the
prepared piano wasn't made in '39. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<i><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></i></span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">But Charles says… Now, maybe, when I went to New York in '47… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>That's right. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>That would be more likely. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<i><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></i></span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Was that, do you think, probably the first time? It wasn't even
public, it was sort of private I think. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span><span style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic;">No<i>.
</i></span>I had done it on the West Coast. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In any case, Conlon, did you talk with
John then? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<i><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></i></span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">Oh, no. He didn't know me. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>What about you, John? When do you remember
first encountering Conlon's music? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, my knowing of Conlon's work was
through John Edmonds at the New York Public Library, who had tapes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Reel-to-reel tapes. Was he an old friend
of yours somehow? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, yes. I didn't know him too well,
but, yes, he was a friend. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>He thought I would be interested in the
work and, as your work just makes us, you know, not just interested but
excited, I was very glad to learn of it and, moreover, I wanted to use it in
relation to Merce Cunningham's work. So we were just then planning a… When did
I first come to see you in Mexico City? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Wasn't it when you went there with Merce
Cunningham? Yes, we were planning a trip to South America. I think that was it.
</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…and Merce had already made a dance using
your music. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But before that, though. It wasn't in
Mexico that he used that music of mine. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, but we had made it but I hadn't yet
met you. It was exciting not only to have the music but the possibility of
being with you in Mexico City. Not only for me but for David Tudor. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, that's right. Yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And I remember the food that we ate
together in your home, which included, didn't it, the huitlacoche? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Huitlacoche! The one mushroom that you
didn't know. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It's a mushroom that grows on corn, and
has the shape of corn but its own color. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, it's a fungus on the corn. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Right.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They throw it away in this country. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They do. You know, I don't think there's
any word for that mushroom in any part of the world, in any other language,
other than corn. It must appear but they must just throw it out, I'm sure, as a
diseased ear or something. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>We have a market, though, now, in Union
Square, with organic food, and when the corn is organic, of course, it grows
the mushroom so that it's possible in Union Square now to get it. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They grow it there? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They grow it organically, you see, in the
area around New York and some of the farmers come to Union Square, and if you
look through their corn you're apt to find huitlacoche. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But in Mexico, this corn is not organic.
It's just the usual commercial corn. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, I know, but it doesn't have
pesticides. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, that's true. They don't put it on
corn. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>If you put pesticides on it the mushroom
won't grow. So, it's possible to get it now in New York. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>What do they call it there? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They have a bad name for it. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>John, when you went into Conlon's studio
and you were confronted with two pianos and the enormous sound of these pianos,
was it completely different from listening to the tapes of Conlon's music? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Of course.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, in the first place, those were very
bad tapes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They were still very exciting. Oh, good
heavens. I still have that excitement hearing your work. But I think in the
room itself, in the room in Mexico City, with the actual instruments, it is
quite an unforgettable experience. Did I send you or have you read that
fantastic little story that I tell with mesostics in my text about Joyce… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…in which Satie goes to visit with Conlon
Nancarrow in Mexico City and when Conlon puts on the piece for two player
pianos, Satie is absolutely bowled over. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In fact he's attacked by the pianos! </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, he lies on the floor and the pianos
are approaching him and in some amazing way they manage to pull themselves up
instead of hurting him as they go over him, and he's delighted not only with
the music but with the behavior of the pianos. And then he says he's going to
write about it in the newspaper. The reason I put that in was because in one of
Satie's texts -- in the <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Infantines</i> --
the little boy, before he's going to sleep, asks his mother whether he's been a
good boy or not. No! She says, "You’ve been a good boy today," and he
says, "Will grandmother know?" And the mother says, "Yes, she'll
know," and the little boy says, “How?”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>And the mother says,"In the newspaper. She'll read about it in the
newspaper." </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>When you listen to Conlon's music, what is
most apparent to you about it structurally? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It’s not so much when I hear it, but when
I read about it, or, yesterday even, when Conlon talked about the piece which
we heard last night, or in the earlier meetings we had, when the String Quartet
was played, which I hope will be repeated now,… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, we’re going to play that. That's the
Third String Quartet. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…the word canon comes up, all the time.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, practically all my music is canons.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, that’s what's…<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What did you ask me, Charles? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Just that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. In other words, for the purposes of
this conversation, I’d like to know how you came to discover the canon. It's
clearly very important for you. It's useful, isn't it? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, more than that. Not strict canon but
the imitation of one voice and so forth. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>For instruments, or just player pianos? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But, finally, when I started doing these
things of polytempo -- say, with one voice going at one speed and one going at
another -- you can hear the relationships much easier if it's the same voice,… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Right. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…even though it's in another key or
whatever, than if it's a completely different thing. You get not confused but
it's not as clear as when this one and this one’s doing this way. It’s the same
thing. That's the main reason I got more obsessed with the canon. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Conlon, what about other composers who've
used canonic procedures that you might have been interested in? Were there
others? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You mean contemporary? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, well, of course. Bach, all of the
people of that period used canon quite a bit. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think what you say now, though, makes
it very clear, that in the complex polytempo situation that you were working
in, this what you can call obvious relationship, of two different things, makes
a very clear, makes a musical object that you can perceive. Then you can begin,
after having that problem solved, so to speak, you can then begin to listen. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>To other things. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Right. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You know, the other day John was talking
to me and the subject of Bach and Mozart came up and you told me that you felt
more aesthetically aligned to Mozart than Bach. Why is that? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Because of his tendency toward
multiplicity, whereas Bach has a tendency toward unity. Do you agree with that,
or not? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, well, in fact, I didn't read it, but
Julio Estrada told me about something he read once about Einstein, who said, I
don't know, someone asked him about Bach and Mozart, and he said, "The
universe should be like Bach, but it is like Mozart." </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Isn't that great.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>
Could you elaborate a bit on your ideas
about Mozart? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think I've already stated it, with the
multiplicity. But I think that if Mozart were living now, he would use the
technology and so forth to make his music even more rich in differences than it
is, whereas Bach probably would continue writing his own music. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Of course, Mozart might be doing rock now.
</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh! You know, besides, Conlon and I come
from a period, the '30s and the '40s, particularly in the '30s, in which the world
of music seemed to be limited by the work of Stravinsky and Schoenberg. Wouldn't
you agree? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>They stood out, like the mountains stand
out. How did you feel about that? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, actually, you know, Schoenberg and
dodecaphony never appealed to me, aesthetically or musically. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>This is very interesting, because it
appealed very much to me. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Really? I didn't know that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I made a choice. When I saw that there
were these two mountains, I chose Schoenberg. Whereas I wasn't aware from
you…<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But you found Stravinsky more
interesting? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, for my own particular aesthetics you
might say. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Did you ever have a conversation with
Stravinsky? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, no. I wouldn't have dreamed of it! (laughter).
</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Neither would I! (more laughter) But I
had one. (even more laughter) </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You did?! </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I'd like to say a little bit about how my
feeling was about the two of them. I lived in Los Angeles and both Stravinsky
and Schoenberg were living there and I had elected to study with Schoenberg.
And Merle Armitage… Did you ever hear his name? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I know the name.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>He was an impresario in the Los Angeles
area… <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And a brilliant book designer. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…and he advertised a concert of
Stravinsky saying that Stravinsky was the world's greatest composer and that
this concert gave us an opportunity to hear the greatest music. Well, this
infuriated me, because I was very pro-Schoenberg. So I went downtown to his
office and I went right into his office and up to his desk and told him that
that was a wrong thing to have done in the city where Schoenberg was living… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It was an insult. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…and that he should somehow take it back.
Of course he didn't. Later, however, in New York, many years later, there was a
performance of <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">L'Histoire du Soldat</i>,
and I was given the part of the Devil. And Elliott Carter was given the part of
the Soldier, and, it must have been Aaron… No. I don't know who was the
Narrator, but it may have been Lukas Foss, or Lukas was conducting. I'm not
clear about that. Anyway, I had practiced the part of the Devil as much as I
could. Stravinsky was in the audience and he was pleased with my performance. I
changed my voice -- I didn't become a parrot (reference to John Lifton's vocal
antics), but I became "other." And so Stravinsky asked me to come and
see him in his hotel, which I did, and we had a brief conversation and in the
course of it I made clear to him that I had chosen Schoenberg instead of him
and he said, "Why?" And I said because his music was chromatic,
because it used all twelve tones. And Stravinsky said very gently, almost plaintively,
he said, "But my music is chromatic too." And then he added,
"The reason I never liked Schoenberg's work," he said, "was
because it isn't modern." And that struck me, because then I remembered my
two years of study with Schoenberg in which Schoenberg would say, speaking of
four notes, and generally they were the same four notes, C-D-F-E-D-C, he would
say, "Bach did this with these notes, and Beethoven did this, and Brahms
did this, and Schoenberg did this." In other words, he considered himself
part and parcel of the tradition, whereas Stravinsky thought of himself as
separate from it, and in a sense that could be described with the word modern,
or it could be separated from the notion of maintaining tradition. You would
accept that, wouldn't you? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>The notion of separating. You wouldn't? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But don't you think your devotion to the
canon exceeds the devotion of tradition of the canon? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, of course.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I mean your music is really
distinguished. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You mean it's traditional?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, distinguished from tradition. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, distinguished from. Well, for other
reasons. As you say, the canon's been around for a long time. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But your devotion to it is very special. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, I guess the use I make of it is
different from most people. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think so. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But wouldn't you say that Bach did a canon
this way, and so-and-so this way, and Nancarrow this way? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, no, the thing is…<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>So you are part of the tradition. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Of course. The whole thing is that I used
the canon for something that hasn't existed until recently, the polytempo
thing, and that's one of the reasons why the player piano, up until now…<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Except now, electronics of course… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Wouldn't you say…<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You're aware of the use by Elliott Carter of
the notion of different tempos at once. But, in his case, the use of different
tempos at the same time is somehow brought into a traditional… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, into a common denominator, actually.
What does he call it? Tempo modulation? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. In other words, he combines it with
other ideas that come from the traditional. Whereas, if I may so, your use of
the canon is starkly different. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I guess so, yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It's very strongly apparent as different
than what we have known of canons before. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think it would be appropriate to, since
you brought up Elliott Carter's name and since Carter has used this technique
in order to enable performers to play in temporally different relationships, to
listen to Conlon's Third String Quartet now, because that is an attempt by
Conlon to pull back from irrational rhythm relationships that can't possibly be
played to find the limits of what human performers can do. The recording that
we have by the Arditti String Quartet was made at the world premiere in, I
guess, '88? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, '88. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Could you say just a few words about it?
John, would like to say something? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I don't think that what you said…<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You're not moving
toward the limits of
something, are you? Aren't you just…<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I
mean, say you came to a limit, there would be then, the possibility would
develop, of going beyond it or not. The ability of musicians to play your music
has changed from finding it impossible to finding it possible. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, from finding it impossible years
ago. The things they found impossible years ago, musicians today, I mean
performers, is just nothing. Except, again… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But if you continue to work with the
Arditti Quartet, or similar situations, you'll find, I'm sure, that things that
we think are impossible are not impossible. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>That's true. Of course, they're unique. I
don't think there's any string quartet in the world that can approach them. But
the limitations there… This Quartet is polytempo, but rational tempos. I can't
imagine any human performers performing, accurately, these irrational
relationships. There's just no way of coordinating, none. This Quartet, at
least, has measures. I mean, the musicians, if they're very good, as the
Arditti is, can handle it. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>John was just suggesting that beyond the
Third Quartet maybe there is more that can be done conventionally with… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…with humans. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. What are the tempo relationships in
this piece? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In the Quartet?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, in what we are going to hear.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>3-4-5-6. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In each of three movements? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And is it always the violin in three, the
second violin in four…? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, no. Each movement is a separate canon.
I mean, it's the same tempo through the whole Quartet, that relationship,
including the final, accelerated canon, at the end, the final coda, where one
instrument starts in, the other voice at one percentage, and it's answered by
the next one, the same voice, at another tempo, 'til finally they all come
together right at the end. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Then what you mean is that even the
Arditti could not do 61 against 60? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Not because of… It would just simply be
too… Yes. I think that I mentioned last night, it's not a 60 against 61, it's a
speed against another speed. And for someone to play accurately… Say, if the
other musician is playing with the metronome set at 60 and the other to play,
without metronome of course, at 61, the beat or whatever. I don't think it's
possible. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>This piece is about eleven or twelve
minutes long, and I think it's time for us to listen. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">(Playing of Conlon
Nancarrow's Third String Quartet) </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I find my pleasure in hearing that music
is not in my knowing that it's a canon. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, it doesn't depend on that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. It gets into an openly mysterious
situation, so that I'm listening, so to speak, wherever I can listen. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Vertically rather than horizontally? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In all the corners. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>John asked me earlier today if you would
say something about your work habits when you're in the process of composing.
How do you go about it? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Very simple things, Conlon. Like do you
like to work early in the morning or late at night? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, my habits have changed over the
years. At one time I was working most of the time, either reading or working. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Day and night? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Almost, yes. Very late at night. Of course
now with a family… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And you work also early in the morning? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. Before? You're talking about before?
Now there's a sort of standard life. No, before, I would work usually very late
at night and then get up early but then sleep most of the afternoon and go back
to work at night.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>How does your system
go?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I also changed.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Excuse me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>You told me not too long ago that you did most of your composing in
airplanes.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I did?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Now I do most of my sleeping there.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>No, I’m joking.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>When I was
younger my energy was with me from the moment I woke up so that I could work
more or less in the morning and work through the day.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But I never liked to work at night.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. David Tudor is the opposite. He would
not work in the morning but he would stay up very late at night and work
through the nocturnal…<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes, of course.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Everyone has a sort of daily rhythm of, well,
energy, and all kinds of things.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And it
varies with different people: if you’ve more energy in the morning, some in the
afternoon, some in the night.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It really
varies.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But the other thing is, did you make all
those rolls?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did you actually do the
work, which, in my case, corresponds to, say, copying music?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I now have a copyist.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Did you have someone to punch thing?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I should say not.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You did all the punching?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>All of it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Of course, people have suggested I could maybe teach someone to punch
but I have to be there watching every note anyhow so what’s the difference?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You still do that?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I still do it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That’s the part that’s the hardest work.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>When you’re punching, you’re not exactly
copying from the score?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You must make an
adjustment of some sort?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, no.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>When I punch, I have what I call a punching score, which is something no
one else could read – sort of shorthand.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>I mean, I write the piece on paper, on manuscript paper.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But it’s not legible to another person?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, sort of. It takes quite a bit of
deciphering. I use that to punch and then, later, and also when I do that I
correct maybe some mistakes I made in my own printing of that, and, after that,
I make a legible score that people can read. So it's a whole process, quite
long. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>It must be amazingly time consuming. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, it is. Some of those rolls are quite
long and take six or eight months just punching. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Good heavens! </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>That's right. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>What happens if you had made a mistake in
a roll? You put it in the piano and play it and realize something desperately
is wrong. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, look. Say I punch a wrong note, then I
just put scotch tape over it and punch the right one. Once in awhile, I think only
once that happened, I forget what happened… But a big section was all wrong. I
had to punch that whole section again. But the problem was splicing it back
into the roll. It was a whole operation, but it worked. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>We've suggested, Conlon, that your composing
has one major idea, the canon. Is it also possible, John, that your music has
one major idea? Because we think of you as a person who… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…doesn't have any ideas? I think it's
true that each person has, so to speak, his work in life to do and that mine
has come to consist in asking questions rather than in making choices. I had an
experience when I was studying with Schoenberg. It was a class in harmony, at
UCLA. I studied with him both in his home and first at USC and then at UCLA.
This was a class in harmony, but he was giving us a problem in counterpoint, in
the class. There were about thirty people in the class. And he sent us all to
the blackboard, and gave us the problem with the <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">cantus firmus</i>, which I've already mentioned, to which he was always
faithful -- he never let us use another one -- and he gave a problem, and he
said, "When you have it solved, turn around, put up your hand and let me
see it." So I did that and he looked at it and he said, "That's
correct, now another," another solution to the same problem. And I did
that. And others were meanwhile doing the same thing. There came the time,
after about eight solutions of the problem, when it occurred to me that there
weren't any more solutions. So when he said, "Now another," I took
courage and said, "There aren't any more solutions." And he said,
"That's also correct." Then he said something which made me love him
more -- or admire is a better word, or worship -- he said, "What is the
principle underlying all of the solutions?" And I couldn't answer. I just
remained silent, I didn't have anything to say. But now I would say -- and I
think he would agree, I think he would say "That's correct" again. I
would say that the question you ask underlies all of the solutions. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>When he asked you that and you said you
didn't know did he say what that would be? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, no. He would never have done that.
And I didn't say I didn't know. I just remained silent. I had nothing to say.
He would never have answered for me. He said another marvelous thing, in
another class, which determined me to devote my life to music. He said,
"My purpose in teaching you," and he was speaking to forty or fifty
people at USC, he said, "My purpose in teaching you is to make it
impossible for you to write music." And, still worshipping him, I decided
to prove that he was wrong. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I'm sure other people there did too. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. It was best teaching he could give
us. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I wonder if we have questions now from the
audience? Yes, there's a person in back. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I was curious about last night, when <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Study No. 37</i> was played last night just
on wooden shoes. How did you find listening to the canons just in a rhythmic
context rather than with pitches? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, naturally it was more limited,
because it's the pure rhythm, nothing else. What defines a canon is not only
the rhythm, but the melodic structure of it, so it's another version of it.
Naturally someone listening to that, who doesn't know the canon -- never heard
it. It could be sort of meaningless. I don't know. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In some places in the piece I found it
actually a little easier to follow the canon. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Because of the spatial relationships you
found it easier? Of the shoes? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think so. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, that's possible. Yes, maybe. As a
matter of fact, a canon would be, even with the pitches, I think because it has
twelve voices, all in a different tempo, would be much more accessible to the
ear if it could be… Well, Trimpin is planning to do something about arranging
it for different sounds for the different voices. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Not just wooden shoes but different
timbral instruments. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Any other questions? Yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I have two questions. One's for Conlon,
which is a follow-up to Laurie's (Laurie Spiegel) question, which is, where,
for you, does the boundary between noise and music fall? And the second one is
for John, which is: I've noticed that even though you're using chance
operations, there seems always to be a point where you are making decisions,
you're saying "I want it to have so many instruments," or "I
want it to have…." Why have you chosen not to go the full distance with
chance operations? Maybe I'm wrong, but it appears that way. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You mean I should answer that? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Why don't you answer that? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I don't know what you mean by the full
distance. You see, I'm involved in what, in Zen, is called purposeful
purposelessness. I'm not involved in purposelessness. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Your turn, Conlon. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, I don't think there's for me a sharp
dividing line between as you say noise and music. Noise can be made into music
and vice versa. Does that answer it? John, you taught us all about silence, and
I'd thought about coming here and showing you how well I can do that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>You mean not say anything? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. But then I thought that's a little
exaggerated. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Right. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There's a question here, in the front. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Some questions to the first section of
your speaking: There was no (mention of the) name of Henry Cowell, and both of
you had contact with Henry Cowell in the '30s, is that right? John, you
subscribed to New Music Series, or not, and Conlon, you had an edition of this
New Music Series, in the '30s, so you must have known this music a little bit earlier?
</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, for me, I think John knew him. I
never knew him, but his book, the New Musical Resources, was I suppose one of
the major influences I had in my music. The book. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But how did you get this edition?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Of the book?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, of your pieces. How was your music
published… <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>How was your music published by Cowell?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…in Cowell's Series. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh. As a matter of fact, I think when it
was published he was already in jail. When I went to Spain, I left some scores
that I'd been working on with Slonimsky (Nicolas Slonimsky) and he gave them, I
guess, to Cowell, or sent them to New Music. I don't remember. They published
them. They published them when I was there. I didn't even know about it. So,
you answer your part of that, John. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>About your relationship to Cowell. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, it was a very lively influence, the
book and, for me, also his classes at the New School. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>When were those classes, John?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>That was in the '40s?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, the '30s.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>So you were in New York in the '30s. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. But I had not yet made the prepared
piano. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>The prepared piano was in '38.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>What?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>The prepared piano was in '38. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Or '39, or '40. At any rate, it was after
my work with Henry Cowell. One of the things in my experience was to hold the
pedal down so that Henry would go around to the back of the piano to strum the
strings, you know, and so forth, in <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The
Banshee</i>. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, yes. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But there was, to answer your question, a
major influence that conjoins these two gentlemen. A question in the front row.
</span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>John, had you been born 60 years later
and were a student today… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Six years later? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Sixty years later. Who would you see the
peaks as, and who would you study with today? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think I would study with James Tenney.
The reason I say that is that all my life I've… Well, when I left Schoenberg, I
left him because he demanded a sense of harmony, a feeling for harmony, and I
had none. And he could see that from my work, that I had no feeling for
harmony. And I simply didn't like that kind of control that harmony had. I
could do it, but I couldn't do it with any enjoyment. I could do it correctly,
but not with any imagination. But it was last December, in Miami at New Music
America, that a piece of James Tenney's was performed, and he has spoken and
taught a new attitude toward harmony which I think, for him, comes through his
study of the work of Varese. And that piece began without the audience's
knowing that it had begun. We thought that the musicians were just fooling
around, or rather tuning, which is… That they weren't really serious about what
they were doing, you know. And it began with the accordion, that very fine
accordionist, what's his name? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Guy Klucsevek. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. And shortly I realized that we were
hearing the piece. That the audience was not listening but the piece had begun.
So I noticed that the music began with a sort of unison and then it became
microtonal and it went on and on until finally, as the intervals grew larger,
it stretched to the extremes of the instrumental capacities and it was all in
relation to a different theory of harmony than any that I knew. It suggests to
me that harmony could be different for each piece. That each piece, and I'm
inventing this now, and haven't studied it, but I think that one could make a
music in which each piece would have its own harmony. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, I think if you describe harmony,
sounds that you hear at the same time… Well, that's not really what you call
harmony. I mean, look. Almost anything that's more than one sound sounds at the
same time. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>True. But I don't have any feeling for
that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, I don't either. What I'm saying is
that it's not… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But I think Tenney does have a feeling
for it. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, he has a feeling for the… Well, you
call it harmony. I don't. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, he calls it harmony. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>He does?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I didn't know that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No, he calls it harmony. He's very
insistent about it. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In any case, would you study with Tenney
in this situation that was just proposed? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Possibly. I never thought of it. I admire
Tenney very much. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I wouldn't mind studying with you either.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I don't teach.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Neither do I.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>A question, right here. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I was thinking about your reaction to
Anthony Davis yesterday and I was thinking that your early works -- <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">First Construction</i> and <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Imaginary Landscape</i> -- are aggressive
music. And I was thinking that if the separation you felt from Anthony Davis is
possibly because he reminds you of yourself as a young John Cage. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I would like to say, and I think I've
already said it,
not now, but at earlier meetings -- that this week, for me,
has been characterized by a difficulty with Anthony Davis at the beginning and
now no difficulty. So… By no difficulty I mean I can even listen to the ideas
he expresses and try to understand them. Whereas when he first expressed them
this week, I resisted hearing them. I didn't even want to hear them because I
don't enjoy that kind of concern with power. I want a situation, I'll try to
avoid the word anarchy, but I want a situation in which each person is at his
own center and not only the people but the things. This is a Buddhist idea. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There is, John, a kind of contradiction in
wanting to be a modernist and a recognized artist who is an individual and an
individualist, in the context of both your political ideas, Conlon, that tended
toward Socialist-Communist ideas, and yours, John, which tended toward
Futurist-Anarchist, in which everybody has what they need. And the world
situation now is that in Capitalist societies, the gap between those who have
what they need and those who don't is widening, and in Socialist societies,
there is an economic breakdown which is brought about by isolation which the
Capitalist societies impose upon them, but in fact is now being trumpeted
widely by the American press. Right in the face of the situation we have here.
In Japan, where Capitalism is working very smoothly, there is a kind of
conformity that is necessitated by the geographic location, and by the cultural
history. And I wonder how you think about the idea of being an individual and
somebody very different from the masses in that you create something new, <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">viz a viz</i> your wanting everybody to have
at least the minimum of what they need. Did you, Conlon, for instance, when you
were active politically, come under attack by people who were politically
allied with you for your music? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Not at all? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. Why would they? I don't understand. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Because they might have said you were
elitist. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Elitist?! Well, it wasn't very elitist. I
wasn't earning any money at it. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>So what was your incentive? That's how
Gorbachev is going to solve his problems, by incentive. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>That's a bit more complicated, to say the
least. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Any thoughts on that, John?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I haven't had any. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>What?
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Thoughts.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>He's resting. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>What is the question? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>If you're an individualist, how can you
propose that everybody be more or less equal in the way society treats them? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, he wants everyone to be an equal
individual. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I would like each person to have what he
needs. And I think if we used intelligence instead of politics, if somehow we
saw the world situation that we're in as a problem that needed solution, and if
we put our minds to solving it, that we could, with our technology, we could,
and Bucky Fuller had this view. We could do it. We could make life, as Bucky
used to say, a success for everyone. And we could live, for instance, not in
places that we owned, but in places that we used. We already do that when we go
on vacation. So we could make the world a continual vacation. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Well, I'd like to spend half of mine in
Telluride. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>In Boomerang or in Coonskin? (reference
to local tourist housing, Coonskin being where Laurie Spiegel and Laura Kuhn
resided) </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There's a question over here. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I have a question that's similar to what
Charles was asking. The other day you, John Cage, were talking about a
conductor-less orchestra as a leaderless society -- less government. Has that
proposed any personal dilemnas, for you, in, for instance, in accepting N.E.A.
grants? Any compromises in your existence and contact with governments for art,
paying taxes…? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. We're living in a transition, if we
get to the place we're transitting. So that we live in a state of inconsistency.
It's only reasonable. We can't have just one idea now. We have to be
inconsistent. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And has that inconsistency influenced
you creatively? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. I would say it's a principle now.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There's a question very far back. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>This is a question primarily for <span style="mso-text-raise: -1.5pt; position: relative; top: 1.5pt;">John Cage, but Conlon
</span>should feel free to answer too.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>You’ve pioneered a lot of new ideas or advocated new ideas <span style="mso-text-raise: -1.5pt; position: relative; top: 1.5pt;">about the composition
of </span>music. Are there any particular
ideas that you’re disappointed, that
you feel have not been fully or properly explored yet, or ground that you see
that you don’t think you’ve explored yet? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think there are more things to be done
now, more things to explore than ever, and that this… I don't even know what
the unknown is. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA: But you know
it's there. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Right. I'm not a student, for instance,
of all the computer possibilities that are going to be discussed later today. I
wouldn't know where to begin, but I'm sure the field is fascinating, enormous,
and so forth. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Any ideas, Conlon, on things you wish
you'd gone into? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. The thing I mentioned the other day,
which, I think, for the future, is very important, the Global Village, but not
how McLuhan thought of it. Now the Global Village is that only a half a dozen
people are running the world. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But that wouldn't be… Well. How do we
know? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>We don't, but we see it coming. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I was going to say we don't know whether
it would be good or bad. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, you seem to think that if there's this
dictatorship up there that you agree with, then it's good. Is that the idea? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. I would want it to be intelligent. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Oh, it would be very disorganized, no
doubt about that. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I would like, for example, the
environment to be handled in such a way that it wasn't destroyed, as we're
doing now. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Yes. Well, of course. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And that's being done by both Socialist
and Capitalist societies. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>By the whole world. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>But what you're saying, John, is that
Nationalism is worse than five corporations? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I think there's a great deal of
unnecessary competition in almost all departments where there should be
problem-solving instead of competition. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>And you don't want the five corporations
or the fifteen hundred nations. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Right. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There's a question in the back. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I'd like to backtrack a little bit and
make a comment, first, that what I've noticed in hearing both of you speak is
that you have a common interest, in, John, with your notion of chance
operations, and, Conlon, with your polytempos. That the center of activity is
with the individual, to a very large extent. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>To the listener, do you mean, or to the
performer? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>To the performer. That there's a
tremendous emphasis on plurality within a piece. In other words, that each
performer is generating a lot of energy towards the piece rather than the
emphasis being the central unifying element. I'm wondering if what I'm saying
is really accurate and that is in fact what draws you to each other. Have I
been clear? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Sort of.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Do you have a response, Conlon,…<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">
CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Not really.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">
CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…as regards the similarities between your
music? <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>No. He's mulling it over.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I'm not getting very far.
<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Let's take one more question. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I was thinking about one of the last
phrases you used, drawing us together. But I don't think we're, so to speak,
drawn together. I think… </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CN: Mulling again. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>…I think I live in a world with you in
it. And I don't have to be drawn any closer than we actually are. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>There's one more question here. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">**:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>This is a question for John Cage. You
mentioned, almost in passing yesterday, that your views on improvisation in
music have changed -- you're less critical, I take it, than you used to be.
Could you talk about that some? </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>I would still criticize improvisation as
I used to criticize it, but now I think we can imagine an improvisation which
is different, different from just doing what you want. And much more like
improvisation as Anthony Davis seems to think it or do it, that is to say, he
thinks of improvisation as giving the improvisers a problem to solve, and
that's how I find it acceptable, too. That if you can give people freedom in a
situation that they see as a problem then the solutions can be invigorating.
But if improvisation is not seen as a problem, then you just get repetition of
mannerisms, or you get more of what you already know that you like. And what we
want is to extend our enjoyment of life, or extend our enjoyment of music, of
relationships of sounds. We want to live, don't we, in a more Mozartean
situation? Or as Mozartean as we can get? And richer. Various. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">CA:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Before we conclude we have an announcement
that John Lifton and Pam Zoline would like to make. Please join us. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">(Enter John Lifton
and Pam Zoline) </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none; text-indent: -.5in;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JL:<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>Last year, at the first
"Composer-to-Composer," we gave an award that was invented on the
occasion for Lou Harrison, called "In Tune with The World" award, and
we would like, on this occasion, of having Conlon Nancarrow and John Cage here,
to give them corresponding awards. We're not quite sure "In Tune With the
World" is the right title here. Conlon's should be "In Time with The
World" and John's should be called "Chance Encounters with The World."
Anyway, we are so privileged and honored to have had them here with us this
year and would like to thank them very much for coming and this is a little
gift from us from Telluride for them to take back with them. </span><span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-autospace: none;">
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;">JC: Good heavens!
Rocks!</span><br />
<span style="mso-ascii-font-family: Cambria; mso-bidi-font-family: Courier; mso-hansi-font-family: Cambria;"><br /></span></div>
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<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-34124022484733358712015-05-27T11:08:00.003-04:002015-05-27T11:08:44.172-04:00Bobby Previte Plays House<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rBtVxBAjWEA/VWW_LZ2yw-I/AAAAAAAAA0o/q2sj_XidXaE/s1600/image2.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="277" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rBtVxBAjWEA/VWW_LZ2yw-I/AAAAAAAAA0o/q2sj_XidXaE/s400/image2.JPG" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Bobby Previte ©Emily Martin</span></td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">The John Cage Trust is situated at Bard College, 90 scenic miles north of New York City, straight up the Hudson River. There are many reasons to enjoy the location: the rich intellectual life of Bard, to be sure, but also an abundance of nature, dramatic seasonal changes, year-round farmer's markets, and a surprisingly lively social scene. And Rhinebeck, Kingston, and Hudson are just a stone's throw away!</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">In 2014, the John Cage Trust embarked on its first John Cage Evening, an invitational gathering at the Milan home of our gracious host, Susan Hendrickson. </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">The events are invitational -- not to be exclusive, but the space is intimate and 40 or so guests make for just the right fit. But, we change the guest list from year to year to keep conversations interesting -- those in the know about John Cage commingle with folks new to the fold. </span><span style="font-size: x-small;"> Our first, on Sept. 19, 2014, brought together four individuals in advance of their weekend performance of Cage's works at Bard's Fisher Center for the Performing Arts: Adam Tendler, pianist, Joan Retallack, poet, Garry Kvistad, percussionist, and yours truly. We had a lively conversation together on the subject of performing Cage, followed by amazing conversation, food, and drink. </span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">This year we celebrated the close of Reality Radio, our 24/7 audio surveillance project in collaboration with Acra's Wave Farm configured within one of Bard College's Conservatory of Music Percussion Studios, headed up by So Percussion. But it also was the occasion to bring the drummer Bobby Previte into the John Cage Evening mix, a musician I'd heard much about but not yet met.</span><br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Bobby Previte ©Emily Martin</span></td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">After a bit of conversation together (super interesting, and could have gone on longer!), Bobby played Susan's house, quite literally. Moving from object to object, inside and out, we scampered after him as he unleashed the sonorous capabilities of walls, gas ranges, vases, ottomans, a swimming pools and even electrical kitchen appliances, these last played by guests, who Bobby ably conducted. We hadn't announced what this year's entertainment would be, so that at the end, everyone expressed delight and amazement about what had transpired.</span><br />
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Laura Kuhn and Ralph Benko </span><br />
<span style="font-size: xx-small;">©Emily Martin</span></td></tr>
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">I think Cage would have been pleased, and you can have a listen <a href="https://wavefarm.org/archive/rcyam3">here</a>. Most think that Cage didn't like improvisation, but closer to the truth was that he wanted any act of improvisation, like the act of composition, to serve as a means of discovery. Bobby allowed that this was precisely what had occurred for him throughout the course of his amazing performance, and I think that Susan might never look at her beautiful surroundings in quite the same way again. The evening was broadcast live over WGXC 90.7-FM, a wonderful partner here in the Hudson Valley; archived programs are available at wavefarm.org. Pre-concert interviews with guests were conducted by Max Goldfarb and Galen Fisher-Hunter. Thanks to all for making this year's event so special. </span><br />
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<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-85468590714858529532015-04-16T13:30:00.002-04:002015-04-16T13:30:58.772-04:00Happy Birthday, Merce!<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">A young Merce Cunningham, courtesy of Lawrence Voytek</span><br /><br /><span style="font-size: x-large;">Happy Birthday, Merce!</span></td></tr>
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<br />John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-85603478310551083452015-03-06T17:00:00.002-05:002016-07-28T11:32:38.050-04:00A Sweet Little Read<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<span style="font-size: xx-small;">For those in love with those of the feline persuasion, you must get Alison Nastasi's new book from Chronicle Books. John Cage is in it (as are Skookum and Losa), but you'll also meet Maya Lin, Frank Stella, Andy Warhol, Gustav Klint, Henri Matisse, Brian Eno, Ai Weiwei, Jean Cocteau, Patti Smith, Edward Gorey, Frida Kahlo, Diego Giacometti, and many, many others. Each is captured in an image with a furry friend, which combines with a short bit of text, revealing something about the artist's life, work, and, well, relationship to cats. <i>William S. Burroughs</i>' entry closes with an intriguing quote, apparently his last journal entry, written in 1997:</span><br />
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<span style="font-size: xx-small;"><i>There is no final enough of wisdom, experience -- any fucking thing. No Holy Grail. No Final Satori, no final solution. Just conflict. Only thing can resolve conflict is love, like I felt for Fletch and Ruski, Spooner and Calico. Pure love. What I feel for my cats present and past. Love? What is it? Most natural painkiller what there is. LOVE.</i></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: xx-small;">Laura Kuhn</span></div>
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John Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8293068775697625659.post-58583399974584670382015-02-02T08:34:00.004-05:002015-02-02T08:34:51.592-05:00The Mushroom Man!<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-osq_VdI0pCU/VM931xfmlXI/AAAAAAAAAys/9S8GqDhEhYw/s1600/JCA_018_001.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-osq_VdI0pCU/VM931xfmlXI/AAAAAAAAAys/9S8GqDhEhYw/s1600/JCA_018_001.jpg" height="436" width="640" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">John Cage, Stony Point (c.1955)/Photo credit: David Gahr</td></tr>
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<i>Here's a little find! A short interview with Laurette Reisman, former student of John Cage's Mushroom Identification class at the New School in 1962, talking about Cage, mushroom walks, and the conception of the New York Mycological Society. This story was produced by Aasim Rasheed for National Public Radio's "Storycorps Digital Storytelling" program. Reisman, interviewed by Rasheed, calls John Cage "The Mushroom Man."</i><br />
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<i>Thanks to Rasheed for providing the interview in both <a href="https://soundcloud.com/storycorps-tns/the-mushroom-man-laurette-reisman-cage">recorded</a> and transcribed form to the ever-growing archives of the John Cage Trust!</i><br />
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Laura KuhnJohn Cage Trusthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13685497335507225688noreply@blogger.com